From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: bug#3035: 23.0.92; doc, terminology for graphics, display, terminal, etc. Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:46:36 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c9bf7c$14221e40$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 3035@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1240005010 16862 80.91.229.12 (17 Apr 2009 21:50:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:50:10 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 17 23:51:30 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Luvxz-00008G-FT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:51:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43234 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Luvwa-0006x5-P8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:49:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Luvqt-0002ot-Ie for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:44:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Luvqn-0002jb-QX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:44:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45110 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Luvqm-0002jL-Dr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:43:56 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:60017) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Luvql-0005VF-Pm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:43:56 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n3HLhpxB021803; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:43:52 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n3HLe7o1020808; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:40:07 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:40:07 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 3035 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.124000388318899 (code B ref -1); Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:40:07 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 17 Apr 2009 21:31:23 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n3HLVDUX018864 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:31:21 -0700 Original-Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:54900) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LusFv-0003Kt-Fz for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:53:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LusFt-00006J-4B for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:53:39 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com ([148.87.113.125]:33128 helo=rgminet13.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LusFs-000063-Ko for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:53:36 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n3HHreQO018259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:53:42 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n3HHrCSW031370 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:53:14 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/98.210.250.59) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:46:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acm/fBKdkMhcr/YSRjqv4wCcA+tMdQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010204.49E8C219.0225:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:44:02 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:27281 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:24299 Archived-At: This is mainly about the Elisp manual, but some of it might also apply to the Emacs manual. 1. `display-graphic-p' has apparently been with us since Emacs 22, but there is still no mention of it in the Elisp manual. Please document how/when it is to be used, compared, for instance with when to use `window-system'. 2. In the Elisp manual, I see the use of terms such as "graphical terminal", "graphicical display" (also "graphics display"), "(non-)graphics-capable display", "text terminals" (opposed to graphical), "graphic characters", and "graphical attributes", without any real explanation or definition. (BTW, shouldn't that always be "graphic", not "graphical"?) Does "graphic" imply mouse support? font support? fringe support? color support? menu support? tool-bar support, image support? multiple-frame support? All of these? Does non-graphics imply absence of all or limited support of some (e.g. frames and colors and fonts)? And there are apparently finer distinctions (which also don't seem to be explained), such as "graphical terminal that supports extended ASCII input" (unless what is really meant is "graphical terminal, which supports extended ASCII input"). And "graphic display capable of displaying several frames and several different fonts" (unless what is really meant is that all graphic displays are so capable). And "graphical menu bar" (is there a non-graphical one?), "graphical environment"... And there are undefined terms, such as "multi-monitor", that are quoted (they should not be). Quoting a term is not a substitute for explaining or defining it. (BTW, there is quite a bit of such inappropriate quoting in the manuals - e.g. "function keys".) Perhaps it would be good to see all of these terms explained together somewhere: display, terminal, monitor, screen, graphic *, frame. (I assume none of these are synonyms.) Node Multiple Displays is a start, but it doesn't bring it all together (as it shouldn't, since it is only about multiple displays). And then please add xrefs back to that section in places where the various terms are used. Perhaps if I reread the whole manual front to back it would become clear, but this is a muddle for me, so far. My ignorance and confusion are no doubt due partly to the fact that I haven't used Emacs without graphics support for 20 years, and if I did perhaps I'd dig in an find out what gives. But I suspect that this could be better presented for everyone. Thanks. In GNU Emacs 23.0.92.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-03-30 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)'