list files in dired case insensitive order

list files in dired case insensitive order

[Xah Lee]

is it possible to order dir/files in dired so that it's case
insensitive? i.e. i don't want dir or file starting with caps grouped
together on top.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

RE: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Drew Adams]

> is it possible to order dir/files in dired so that it's case
> insensitive? i.e. i don't want dir or file starting with caps grouped
> together on top.

There are no doubt several ways. I use these libraries:
dired-sort-menu.el
dired-sort-menu+.el

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu

Re: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Xah Lee]

On Dec 14, 10:08 am, "Drew Adams" <drew.ad...@oracle.com> wrote:
> > is it possible to order dir/files in dired so that it's case
> > insensitive? i.e. i don't want dir or file starting with caps grouped
> > together on top.
>
> There are no doubt several ways. I use these libraries:
> dired-sort-menu.el
> dired-sort-menu+.el
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu

Hi Drew,

thanks a lot.

I went to
http://centaur.maths.qmw.ac.uk/Emacs/
but server not responding.

Could you possibly pass me that?
Or perhaps put the source on emacswiki?

I read on emacswiki that you wrote “dired-sort-menu+.el” to enhance
it. Couldn't you just fork it so it's one single coherent package?

my gripe is that there are so many packages to install and massage
things. Usually this limit the usefulness to a few emacs diehards. It
would be great if dired itself should handle case insensitive
ordering, since this is pretty basic. (dired should also do opening
several files, which is also a FAQ)... getting stuff into GNU Emacs is
really a pain and long process... even though it has became better in
the past 5 years.

Related:
• On Unix File System's Case Sensitivity (by Brian Tiemann)
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/fileCaseSens.html

anyway, thanks a lot for the pointer.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

RE: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Drew Adams]

> I went to http://centaur.maths.qmw.ac.uk/Emacs/ but server not responding.
> Could you possibly pass me that?
> Or perhaps put the source on emacswiki?

I just posted the copy I have on the wiki:
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired-sort-menu.el.

I generally don't like to do that, because people should always contact the
author for the latest version. It's not the best idea to have multiple versions
floating around. I added a comment to that effect to the start of the file's
Commentary. I've emailed the author to inform him. If his URL changes or his
site comes back up reliably, then I'll delete the copy on the wiki. It is the
author's choice where he wants users to look for the latest, maintained version
of his work.

> I read on emacswiki that you wrote "dired-sort-menu+.el" to enhance
> it. Couldn't you just fork it so it's one single coherent package?

I don't feel it's my place to do that. Posting a complete library that includes
the code of someone else plus my enhancements is not right. I informed the
author about `dired-sort-menu+.el' (long ago). If he wants to include those
minor enhancements in the original, then I will toss `dired-sort-menu+.el'. That
would be preferable, but I cannot make someone include my suggestions.

That's the way I work. As long as the original author prefers not to include my
additions or changes (or their equivalent), I offer my code as a separate,
auxilliary library. In sum, I write an enhancement for my own use first, without
modifying the original library, and I make the enhancement available to others
also, as long as it has not been incorporated into the original library.

It's no big deal for users; you need only load my library; it will load the
library it enhances.

> my gripe is that there are so many packages to install and massage things.

There is nothing additional to install, and no massaging needed. If you want my
enhancements, then you need only require `dired-sort-menu+.el' (and put both
libraries in your `load-path'). If you prefer the unenhanced original, then you
need only require `dired-sort-menu.el' (and put it in your `load-path'). No
biggee.

> Usually this limit the usefulness to a few emacs diehards. It
> would be great if dired itself should handle case insensitive
> ordering, since this is pretty basic.

Send Emacs enhancement requests to emacs-devel@gnu.org, or use `M-x
report-emacs-bug'.
That is the only way you can change vanilla Emacs directly.

> (dired should also do opening several files, which is also a FAQ)...

I was thinking that `e', `f', `RET', and `o' would open the marked files, but I
guess not.

Dired+ does that - mark the files you want to open, then hit `F'.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredPlus.

> getting stuff into GNU Emacs is really a pain and long process...
> even though it has became better in the past 5 years.

I'm not convinced it has become better. But it is the bridge you must cross, if
you want to change vanilla Emacs.

RE: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Drew Adams]

> I just posted the copy I have on the wiki:
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired-sort-menu.el.

I just heard back from the author, Francis Wright.

He said the site was down only temporarily and is back up now. He also said it's
OK to leave the file posted on Emacs Wiki - it is the latest version. Enjoy.

Re: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Xah Lee]

On Dec 14, 10:08 am, "Drew Adams" <drew.ad...@oracle.com> wrote:
> > is it possible to order dir/files in dired so that it's case
> > insensitive? i.e. i don't want dir or file starting with caps grouped
> > together on top.
>
> There are no doubt several ways. I use these libraries:
> dired-sort-menu.el
> dired-sort-menu+.el
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu

i just downloaded it from the new url you posted the source:
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired-sort-menu.el

then i eval-buffer. Then went to a dir and pulled the menu
“Immediate‣Sort by‣” and don't see anything about “case insenstive”.
Then i tried “Immediate‣Sort by‣Unsort” out of curiosity, then it
says:
“insert-directory: Listing directory failed but `access-file' worked”.

Btw, the original link:
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu

still doesn't work for me.

At this point, more time spent to get this work is not worthwhile than
the minor incovenience.

This is why i hate tech geek diddling or “play with” source code or
compiling emacs, and why it is important to have everything by
default, because that usually garantee some quality assurance.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

RE: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Drew Adams]

> > > is it possible to order dir/files in dired so that it's case
> > > insensitive? i.e. i don't want dir or file starting with 
> > > caps grouped together on top.
> >
> > There are no doubt several ways. I use these libraries:
> > dired-sort-menu.el
> > dired-sort-menu+.el
> >
> > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu
> 
> i just downloaded it from the new url you posted the source:
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired-sort-menu.el
> 
> then i eval-buffer. Then went to a dir and pulled the menu
> "Immediate?Sort by?" and don't see anything about "case insenstive".
> Then i tried "Immediate?Sort by?Unsort" out of curiosity, then it
> says: "insert-directory: Listing directory failed but `access-file'
> worked".

Dunno. Works for me out of the box. If you want to try to debug it, perhaps we
can find the problem.

With emacs -Q, I load the file, then open Dired, and see this menu item (which
works for me):

Immediate > Sort By > Ignore Case (c)

If you don't see that, then yes, there is a problem.

I see Immediate > Sort By > Unsorted (not Unsort), and it works for me.

I suggest you either debug a bit (e.g. `debug-on-error' or `debug-on-entry') or,
if you don't want to spend the time, give up.

> Btw, the original link:
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu
> still doesn't work for me.

Works for me. Perhaps the wiki site had a hiccup when you tried - maybe try it
again.

> At this point, more time spent to get this work is not worthwhile than
> the minor incovenience.

Your call. If it's major enough to spend your time and mine on the mailing list,
then I would think it might be major enough to spend a little time to try to see
what the problem is.

Did you use emacs -Q? If not, perhaps something in your init file is
interfering. Are you using Emacs 23? If so, try Emacs 22 - maybe they've broken
or "improved" something, so it doesn't work with dired-sort-menu.el. However, it
works for me with an Emacs 23 build of 11/24. Dunno.

> This is why i hate tech geek diddling or "play with" source code or
> compiling emacs, and why it is important to have everything by
> default, because that usually garantee some quality assurance.

Yes, I want it all, and I want it NOW! ;-)

But won't you feel silly if you discover that it is your own tech-geek diddling
in your init file that led to the problems you see? ;-) Just a guess.

Re: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Xah Lee]

On Dec 17, 8:19 am, "Drew Adams" <drew.ad...@oracle.com> wrote:
> > > > is it possible to order dir/files in dired so that it's case
> > > > insensitive? i.e. i don't want dir or file starting with
> > > > caps grouped together on top.
>
> > > There are no doubt several ways. I use these libraries:
> > > dired-sort-menu.el
> > > dired-sort-menu+.el
>
> > >http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu
>
> > i just downloaded it from the new url you posted the source:
> >http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired-sort-menu.el
>
> > then i eval-buffer. Then went to a dir and pulled the menu
> > "Immediate?Sort by?" and don't see anything about "case insenstive".
> > Then i tried "Immediate?Sort by?Unsort" out of curiosity, then it
> > says: "insert-directory: Listing directory failed but `access-file'
> > worked".
>
> Dunno. Works for me out of the box. If you want to try to debug it, perhaps we
> can find the problem.
>
> With emacs -Q, I load the file, then open Dired, and see this menu item (which
> works for me):
>
> Immediate > Sort By > Ignore Case (c)
>
> If you don't see that, then yes, there is a problem.
>
> I see Immediate > Sort By > Unsorted (not Unsort), and it works for me.
>
> I suggest you either debug a bit (e.g. `debug-on-error' or `debug-on-entry') or,
> if you don't want to spend the time, give up.
>
> > Btw, the original link:
> >http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredSortMenu
> > still doesn't work for me.
>
> Works for me. Perhaps the wiki site had a hiccup when you tried - maybe try it
> again.
>
> > At this point, more time spent to get this work is not worthwhile than
> > the minor incovenience.
>
> Your call. If it's major enough to spend your time and mine on the mailing list,
> then I would think it might be major enough to spend a little time to try to see
> what the problem is.
>
> Did you use emacs -Q? If not, perhaps something in your init file is
> interfering. Are you using Emacs 23? If so, try Emacs 22 - maybe they've broken
> or "improved" something, so it doesn't work with dired-sort-menu.el. However, it
> works for me with an Emacs 23 build of 11/24. Dunno.
>
> > This is why i hate tech geek diddling or "play with" source code or
> > compiling emacs, and why it is important to have everything by
> > default, because that usually garantee some quality assurance.
>
> Yes, I want it all, and I want it NOW! ;-)
>
> But won't you feel silly if you discover that it is your own tech-geek diddling
> in your init file that led to the problems you see? ;-) Just a guess.

just a quick reply (heading for bed now)...

i started my Carbon Emacs with -q
, then open the file, eval-buffer, then go to dired, then pull menu
under Immediate. No i don't see “> Immediate > Sort By > Ignore Case
(c)”. If i choose Unsort, the dired buffer gets erased empty with that
error message.

the package i got from wiki is

;;; dired-sort-menu.el --- provide menu/dialogue for dired sort
options
...
;; $Id: dired-sort-menu.el,v 1.26 2001-07-26 21:22:48+01 fjw Exp $
...
;;; dired-sort-menu.el ends here

the emacs i'm using is:
GNU Emacs 22.2.1 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.11.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0) of
2008-04-05 on g5.tokyo.stp.isas.jaxa.jp

i'll maybe respond to your message more fully 'morrow and maybe
something will come up...

'night

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

RE: list files in dired case insensitive order

[Drew Adams]

> i started my Carbon Emacs with -q
> , then open the file, eval-buffer, then go to dired, then pull menu
> under Immediate. No i don't see "> Immediate > Sort By > Ignore Case
> (c)". If i choose Unsort, the dired buffer gets erased empty with that
> error message.
> 
> the package i got from wiki is
> ;; $Id: dired-sort-menu.el,v 1.26 2001-07-26 21:22:48+01 fjw Exp $

Yes, that's the version I have, and according to the author it is the latest.

> the emacs i'm using is:
> GNU Emacs 22.2.1 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.11.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0) of
> 2008-04-05 on g5.tokyo.stp.isas.jaxa.jp
> 
> i'll maybe respond to your message more fully 'morrow and maybe
> something will come up...

Using 22.2.1 on Windows, doing just what you described, it works for me.

Sounds like a bug, perhaps platform-dependent. You might want to debug a bit and
follow up with the library author. Sorry about that.