From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2473: usability issues on emacs's describe-mode Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:19:39 -0800 Message-ID: <000401c998ee$d098e810$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <3FD7E241-BEE3-43D6-B7F6-79A3758562FB@xahlee.org> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235749550 11499 80.91.229.12 (27 Feb 2009 15:45:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:45:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xah@xahlee.org, rms@gnu.org To: "'Lennart Borgman'" , <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 27 16:47:04 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ld4vO-0005du-4e for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:46:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48796 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld4u3-0008Rc-1p for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:45:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld4sK-0006XC-QE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:43:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld4sI-0006US-Dt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:43:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57044 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld4sI-0006Ti-2z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:43:42 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:58805) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ld4sH-0000Rz-5g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:43:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RFhciS001479; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:43:38 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n1RFP5RF028313; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:25:05 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:25:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2473 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2473-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2473.123574799826715 (code B ref 2473); Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:25:05 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2473) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Feb 2009 15:19:58 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from rgminet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RFJsUf026707 for <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:19:55 -0800 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n1RFKrqZ021047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:20:54 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt707.oracle.com (acsmt707.oracle.com [141.146.40.85]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n1RFJknt015778; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:19:47 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.72.147) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:19:41 +0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcmY0QsvyUDDJTr5QRuZ+iMiFBwBBQAHJBlw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: X-Source-IP: acsmt707.oracle.com [141.146.40.85] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.49A80492.001B:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:43:42 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:25780 Archived-At: > > make the buffer present an expandable list of modes, > > starting with just 2 items: the current major modes and=20 > > "minor modes", e.g. similar to what we do in Speedbar, or > > maybe in Outline Mode (under "Hide Sublevels"). =A0In ASCII art: > > > > =A0+ Major Mode: RMAIL Mode > > =A0+ Minor Modes > > > > Clicking on a plus near Major Mode would then expand to the text we > > currently show for that major mode, for example: > > > > =A0- Major Mode: RMAIL mode > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Rmail Mode is used by M-x rmail for editing Rmail = files. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 All normal editing commands are turned off. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Instead, these commands are available: > > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 . =A0 =A0Move point to front of this message. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 / =A0 =A0Move point to bottom of this message. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 SPC =A0Scroll to next screen of this message. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 DEL =A0Scroll to previous screen of this message. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 n =A0 =A0Move to Next non-deleted message. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 p =A0 =A0Move to Previous non-deleted message. > > > > =A0+ Minor Modes > > > > Clicking on "Minor Modes" would show only the list of modes=20 > > with short descriptions: > > > > =A0- Minor Modes: > > =A0 =A0+ Auto-Compression -- automatic file compression and=20 > > uncompression. > > =A0 =A0+ Blink-Cursor -- blink cursor in current window. > > =A0 =A0+ Desktop-Save -- save Emacs session on exit. > > =A0 =A0+ Display-Time -- display time, load average, and mail=20 > > flag in modeline. > > =A0 =A0+ File-Name-Shadow -- shadow ignored part of file name=20 > > in minibuffer. > > > > etc., you get the picture. =A0(We could also have a tooltip=20 > > on each line showing more info for that mode.) =A0Clicking on > > any of the plus signs near a minor mode would display the > > full documentation for that minor > > mode, the one we show today unconditionally. > > > > This way, the user will be able to expand only the modes she is > > interested in. =A0Using the short description, the user will=20 > > be able to find out what is/are the modes she is interested in, > > if she doesn't know that in advance. > > > > For more functionality, we could add buttons and/or help-echo > > links to go to the manual where the mode is fully described. > > > > WDYT? >=20 > A very good suggestion. Sounds good to me, too. Actually, we've been around this block before. This discussion 5 years = ago: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2004-05/msg00275.html seemed to end with people agreeing that we should show the major mode information and provide links to show the info for each minor mode (in = *Help*). But no one ever implemented it. The current suggestion is better in these related ways: * You can print all mode info at once (with ^L acting as page = separator). * You can show the info for more than one minor mode at a time, in case comparison helps. But of course agreement will not (again) mean anything if no one ever = implements it.