From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: C-f, C-b, C-n and C-p or right, left, down, up? Date: 01 Oct 2003 19:39:25 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <1c58a7c3.0310010003.78c0fa00@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1065031188 9171 80.91.224.253 (1 Oct 2003 17:59:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:59:48 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 01 19:59:46 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A4lGM-0008El-00 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 19:59:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A4l2p-0004kB-Cc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:45:47 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!pd9509db0.dip.t-dialin.NET!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 66 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9509db0.dip.t-dialin.net (217.80.157.176) Original-X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1065029965 11973990 217.80.157.176 (16 [198409]) X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:116998 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:12921 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:12921 "Daniel B." writes: > David Kastrup wrote: > > > > brakjoller@hotmail.com (Barman Brakjoller) writes: > > > > ... > > > > The contortions one has to go through in order to switch from one > > direction of movement to another make this quite unergonomic, > > If you think there's a contortion between control-b and control-f > (back and forward (left and right)), see below. I have to hold down control with the pinky, and reach b and f with two fingers that are in quite different bends and directions. Three fingers being bent out of their rest position and in need of pressing coordinated make for RSI. > If you think there's a contortion between control-n and control-p > (next and previous (down and up)), then what's going on with you? > > and you have the control key locking down another finger at the > > same time. > > Have you experienced the control key in its correct location (not > where IBM-PC-style keyboards put control keys)? That will make a > big difference. I will still need to use my pinky for it. > Typing Control-A is supposed to be as easy as putting your left little > (leftmost) finger to the left of the A key and putting your left ring > (second leftmost) finger on the A key. We are not talking Ctrl-A, and besides, little and ring finger share the same sheath for their sinews. Since you have to move them independently, (CTRL down A down A up CTRL up), you have to let them work against each other. > > Contrast that to vi, where the keyboard bindings for movement are > > simply _the_ thing to use. > > What you mean by _the_ thing to use? No vi user with a modicum of experience will use cursor keys instead of hjkl-Navigation. > Modern version of vi accept arrow keys as well as traditional vi > movement keys, don't they? Right. For the same of beginners, mostly. Experienced vi users will use hjkl, whereas most experiences Emacs users will escape to using cursor keys when available. > And what contrast is there? Emacs takes main-keyboard keystrokes as > well as arrow keys, and so does vi now. vi movement commands on the main keyboard are single-key, not control-combinations. And they are all located on different fingers of a single hand in rest position (shifted to the left by 1 key in contrast to the 10-finger typist rest position, the only slight awkwardness). -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum