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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:27:19 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <x5acoz77xk.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 878y4jiij7.fsf@verizon.net

Shawn Betts <sabetts@vee-see-en.bee-see.see-a> writes:

> Emacs is self consistent. Good Emacs programs follow The Emacs
> Way. Changing some common keybindings might help newbs to stick with
> it a bit longer, but pretty soon they'll hit the next layer. These
> newbs still haven't learned how everything works together nor have
> they become fimiliar with Emacs key bindings. So do you keep
> disfiguring Emacs to hide from them the AWFUL truth? When does it
> end?  Eventually they'll HAVE learn how to use Emacs the way it was
> intended. And I sure hope so! Emacs keybindings are WAY better.

Actually, they are scattered all over the keyboard regardless of the
layout, particularly for basic cursor movement.  They are intended to
be somewhat mnemonic, but they are not easy on the wrist.  RSI is a
recurring theme with major Emacs hackers.  vi bindings, at least on a
standard American keyboard, make more ergonomic sense, apart from
being shifted one position off home row for 10 finger typists.

But whether they are better or not, they are a complex and consistent
scheme, and changing them is not something you can do in a minute.

> Its not Emacs that has to change. Its their minds. Your time is
> better spent erecting billboards telling ppl how insanely great
> Emacs is than convincing Emacs hackers they should smash holes in
> their Perfect System for fools.

Oh, Emacs has changed all the time over years to accommodate more
users and in particular beginners.  Don't fall for the propagandists
that tell you otherwise simply because not everybody jumps with glee
at their proposals.

It takes time getting used to Emacs, but this is getting much more
tolerable than it was at one time.  Emacs has survived a slew of
operating systems and keybinding trends over the years, and there are
more to come.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

  reply	other threads:[~2005-03-19 19:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-03-18 21:12 Making Emacs more newbie friendly PT
2005-03-18 21:57 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-19  5:40   ` PT
2005-03-19  7:57     ` rgb
2005-03-19  9:51       ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 10:46         ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-19 11:01           ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20  0:42             ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-19 20:16         ` Miles Bader
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4427.1111265353.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 20:53           ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 10:56       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <mailman.4380.1111231068.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 14:23         ` PT
2005-03-19 15:08           ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 15:45           ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 10:47     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 14:34       ` nfreimann
2005-03-19 15:49         ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-19 16:13           ` nfreimann
     [not found]           ` <mailman.4406.1111250911.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 19:12             ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 19:35               ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 21:00                 ` Miles Bader
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.4435.1111267700.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 22:42                   ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 15:50         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 12:42     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-19 14:56       ` PT
2005-03-19 15:37         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 17:45         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-19 18:07           ` PT
2005-03-19 18:15             ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 18:24               ` PT
2005-03-19 18:34                 ` David Kastrup
2005-04-09 18:01         ` Nathan Hess
     [not found]     ` <mailman.4378.1111230698.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 13:41       ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 14:31         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:04           ` Lee Sau Dan
2005-03-20 12:33             ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:33               ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-21  7:39                 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 10:07                   ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-21 11:27                   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-22 11:25                     ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 11:54                   ` Klaus Straubinger
2005-03-21 12:37                   ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 12:27           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 12:47             ` Jason Rumney
2005-03-21 18:30               ` Drew Adams
2005-03-19 15:37         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 17:09         ` Stefan Monnier
2005-03-20 12:42           ` Brian Elmegaard
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4399.1111247782.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 12:39           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 20:27             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]             ` <mailman.4504.1111351877.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 21:05               ` David Kastrup
2005-03-21  8:11               ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 19:56                 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.4626.1111436194.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-22 11:33                   ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 14:52       ` PT
2005-03-19 15:14         ` David Hansen
2005-03-19 15:33         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:00           ` PT
2005-03-19 16:22             ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:57               ` PT
2005-03-19 17:16                 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 17:55                   ` PT
2005-03-19 18:03                     ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 12:52                       ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:44                         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 21:49                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-22 11:46                             ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-22 13:09                               ` David Kastrup
2005-03-23  7:29                                 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21  8:17                           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 18:01                   ` PT
2005-03-19 20:45                     ` Miles Bader
2005-03-20 17:43                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-19 18:05                 ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 18:15                   ` PT
2005-03-20 17:51                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-19 17:17             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 23:16             ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 11:49           ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-20 13:06             ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-19 16:05         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 18:16         ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 23:34           ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20  0:45           ` David Kastrup
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4404.1111249572.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 11:51           ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-20 16:31         ` ken
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4485.1111338015.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 23:35           ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-21  4:44             ` Sean Richards
2005-03-21 11:00               ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-22 20:33                 ` Sean Richards
2005-03-19 15:45     ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-19 15:54       ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-19 17:25       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <mailman.4413.1111254615.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 23:33         ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20  4:37           ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-20  9:07             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-20 11:30               ` nfreimann
2005-03-20 12:16                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.4474.1111322832.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 18:04                   ` Joe Bush
2005-03-21  8:23                     ` Brian Elmegaard
     [not found]               ` <mailman.4470.1111319220.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 13:01                 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-20 17:37                 ` David Kastrup
     [not found]           ` <mailman.4443.1111294657.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 15:29             ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 15:58               ` Joe Corneli
     [not found]               ` <mailman.4479.1111335526.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 20:33                 ` Jochen Küpper
2005-03-20 23:50                   ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-20 12:59       ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:45         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-21  8:19           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 18:42     ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 19:27       ` David Kastrup [this message]
2005-03-20  6:55       ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-18 22:11 ` Peter Dyballa
2005-03-19 17:17 ` Jason Rumney
2005-03-19 18:10   ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-22  1:59     ` Cristian Gutierrez
2005-03-21  9:56 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-03-21 19:23 ` Peter K. Lee
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-03-21 12:53 nfreimann
2005-03-21 15:22 ` Joe Corneli
     [not found] <mailman.4566.1111411378.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-21 13:21 ` Klaus Straubinger
2005-03-21 21:44 ` Miles Bader

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