From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christoph Wedler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why aren't `find`, `find-if`, `remove-if` part of Emacs Lisp? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:51:49 +0200 Organization: SAP AG Message-ID: References: <87d2e78nn7.fsf@gmail.com> <87bntr8jtc.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1403618427 25550 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2014 14:00:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:00:27 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 24 16:00:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WzRGj-0000gQ-Rd for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:00:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59924 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WzRGj-0005yb-Es for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:00:17 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.datemas.de!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!news1.dtag.de!news.sap-ag.de!news1!news.sap-ag.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 39 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: nKU7bvDXFB5LzogK6rDeaQ.news.sap-ag.de Original-X-Trace: news.sap-ag.de 1403617910 26247 nKU7bvDXFB5LzogK6rDeaQ.news.sap-ag.de (24 Jun 2014 13:51:50 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@sap.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:51:50 +0000 (UTC) Cancel-Lock: sha1:SAwMtV75ewvpZLouKk13boP5bNo= User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (windows-nt) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:206100 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:98371 Archived-At: Damien Cassou writes: > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Barry Margolin wrote: > >> Why? Just to avoid having to do (require 'cl)? Or are you suggesting >> that they should be rewritten in C and made primitive subrs? > > I think Nicolas' problem is not the language in which the functions are > implemented. In my opinion, the problems are: > > - that a (large) library must be loaded to have these 2 core functions > (select a subset of elements, select one element). And this library is not > required for similar functions like mapcar > > - that the name of the cl-lib functions are all prefixed by 'cl-' which > makes them look weird for core functions > > I don't think Nicolas cares about the exact same features as cl-remove-if > and cl-find-if. A very simple alternative (i.e., without the &rest cl-keys) > would do the job. Indeed, the "cl-" prefix is very weird. I would consider almost all CL functions core, with the exception of (cl-)loop. Btw, in Emacs-24.3, syntax highlighting does not work for cl-defstruct, but defstruct. To be honest, I do not fully understand why Emacs has such an anti-CL policy. Sometimes, you hear the "namespace argument" ("polution"): Well, to put that into perspective, you might want to check the EMACS/etc/NEWS* files. There, you see quite a few "new function" announcements without extra namespace, quite a few are actually the CL functions... (repeated "namespace polutions" are IMHO worse than one bigger one). Regards, Christoph