From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Scholz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Holy Wars redux: w3 vs. emacs-w3m Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:30:12 +0100 Sender: help-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1036451162 7739 80.91.224.249 (4 Nov 2002 23:06:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 188qHx-0001ym-00 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:05:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188qFB-0001Gq-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:02:53 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!dialin-145-254-203-093.arcor-ip.NET!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 57 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-145-254-203-093.arcor-ip.net (145.254.203.93) Original-X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1036449025 7513356 145.254.203.93 (16 [87814]) X-Operating-System: GNU/Linux, built from scratch: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ X-Attribution: os X-Face: "HgH2sgK|bfH$;PiOJI6|qUCf.ve<51_Od(%ynHr?=>znn#~#oS>",F%B8&\vus),2AsPYb -n>PgddtGEn}s7kH?7kH{P_~vu?]OvVN^qD(L)>G^gDCl(U9n{:d>'DkilN!_K"eNzjrtI4Ya6;Td% IZGMbJ{lawG+'J>QXPZD&TwWU@^~A}f^zAb[Ru;CT(UA]c& User-Agent: Gnus/5.090008 (Oort Gnus v0.08) Emacs/21.2 (i386-msvc-nt5.1.2600) Cancel-Lock: sha1:XHO78ZXKR/8ZTU5UNlrwtl8ZUrU= Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:106740 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:3294 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:3294 "A. Lucien Meyers" writes: > alkibiades@gmx.de (Oliver Scholz): >> "Michael J. Barillier" writes: [...] >> > Anyone have an opinion[3] on W3 vs. emacs-w3m? >> >> IMHO Emacs/W3 feels a lot more emacsish. Well, it is written in Elisp >> anyways. I really wish it would be more actively developed, because >> actually it is my favourite browser. And yes, I know emacs-w3m and I >> use it as a last resort, when Emacs/W3 fails to render a page. I am >> not happy with this, though. > > Why not, Oliver? w3m works and works well. w3 does not. Basta. *hehehe* I don't think that this "Basta" is well applied on a piece of free software. :-) I would read that statement rather as "Emacs/W3 still needs a lot of work before it is reliable and usable as your main browser." [Actually on my system Emacs/W3 is not reliable only in cases, where emacs-w3m is not reliable, too: in dealing with images and some advanced css stuff (Come to think about it, I doubt that emacs-w3m even tries to address the latter). So the main disadvantage is that Emacs/w3 is slow. Very slow, to be sure.] I do not want say anything bad against emacs-w3m, but it feels like the interface to an external console application. (Probably, because it is one.) While Emacs/W3 -- slow and incomplete and imperfect as it may be -- has at least the potential to be a full fledged graphical (!) web browser integrated in Emacs. I envision Emacs/W3 as the equivalent to Gnus in the far future: the slowest but most powerful and extensible html browser out there. O.k. maybe this is rather dreaming ... But apart from that, I'd like to see it in a broader context: I am pretty sure that Emacs will get more and more word processing facilities in the future. I see Emacs/W3 as a component of the Emacs Integrated Text Processing and Rendering System. As I read W. Perry's papers about the future of Emacs/W3, he seems to have something like that in mind. It is true that Emacs/W3 has suffered some bit rott, because nobody seems to develop it actively. But this will not change, if we allow it to become a public opionion that Emacs/W3 should be disregarded. Finally the OP got the religious flame war he asked for. :-) > BTW w3m also works quite well as a stand-alone browser under X. Outside of Emacs I tend to be a lynx fan. Oliver -- 14 Brumaire an 211 de la Révolution Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité!