From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why emacs have not native language menu Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:47:19 +0300 Message-ID: References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <877ioqdoq9.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <87hcnuc6hz.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <878x95dhne.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <52sl7dopel.fsf@googlemail.com> <87vec84075.fsf@kobe.laptop> <5rejivs2w4.fsf@googlemail.com> <6E37A594-1ED3-448F-87C7-F3CC08BC73DF@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <1FDBFED7-D9DA-4F27-B931-1F3B9AF0FAFA@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185533273 1947 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2007 10:47:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:47:53 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 27 12:47:47 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IENMJ-0008G1-56 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:47:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IENMI-00027D-Oh for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:47:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IENM3-000272-NV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:47:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IENM2-00026o-5n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:47:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IENM2-00026l-1L for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from nitzan.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.22]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IENM1-0002LD-Fs for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:47:29 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-83-130-3-118.inter.net.il [83.130.3.118]) by nitzan.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id HJL66852 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:47:31 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <1FDBFED7-D9DA-4F27-B931-1F3B9AF0FAFA@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> (message from Jean-Christophe Helary on Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:45 +0900) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:46113 Archived-At: > From: Jean-Christophe Helary > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:45 +0900 > > I sincerely think the emacs documentation (manual, elisp reference, > elist introduction) is verbose. I think the structure is not explicit > enough. I think they don't provide an easy access to information. You will have to back this up with explicit examples (more than one for each category, preferably), to convince the maintainers to treat these assertions seriously. (The emacs-devel list is the right place to post the examples and for any serious discussion of problems with the Emacs documentation.) Wrt to verbosity, the manual is usually accused of the opposite: that it leaves too much out. I have no idea what you mean under ``the structure is not explicit enough''--the structure of what? As for easy access to information (assuming I understood what you mean), the index search command (`i' in Info mode) normally gets me to the right place very quickly and efficiently. > And I think that is the reason why we've seen so little translation > of the whole thing, even though emacs has been around for a while > now. The fact that there is no localization framework also helps: it > shows that emacs developers were specifically _not_ interested in > getting involved with reaching out to other linguistic communities. I think the real problem is that no one stepped forward and volunteered. It's true that the core maintainers generally have a good command of English, and have too much on their plate to make this their first priority, but that would not prevent them from welcoming any work on localization--witness the proliferation of translations of the tutorial and reference cards between Emacs 21.x and 22.1. Emacs is a project run by volunteers on their free time, so features that get implemented are those for which interested individuals have enough motivation to sit down and code them. There are other important features that Emacs doesn't have because no one volunteered; it is really silly to accuse the maintainers of being not interested in all of them. > It makes it difficult for translators to have their work advertised > properly (even though there are links to some translations), it makes > updating the translation a fantastic endeavor. I don't understand what difficulties you have in mind. It's not like the Emacs maintainers are actively interfering with adding links or advertisement.