Re: UK date format in Dired

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Harald Hanche-Olsen]

+ "Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com>:

| Is it possible to get Dired to show dates in UK format.

Should be possible, if you can talk ls into doing so.  Possibly just
setting the appropriate locale variable (LC_TIME) in the environment
will do the trick.

To use another ls than the first one in PATH, set the variable
insert-directory-program to its pathname.  And set the variable
dired-listing-switches to the command line switches you need (as a
single string; will be converted to a list by the shell).

Oh, if you're on windows this won't help, and neither can I.

-- 
* Harald Hanche-Olsen     <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
- It is undesirable to believe a proposition
  when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true.
  -- Bertrand Russell

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Graham Smith]

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Harald,

Thanks for the help, but yes I am on Windows, and all OS regional settings
are already set up for the UK.

Graham

On 24/01/07, Harald Hanche-Olsen <hanche@math.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> + "Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com>:
>
> | Is it possible to get Dired to show dates in UK format.
>
> Should be possible, if you can talk ls into doing so.  Possibly just
> setting the appropriate locale variable (LC_TIME) in the environment
> will do the trick.
>
> To use another ls than the first one in PATH, set the variable
> insert-directory-program to its pathname.  And set the variable
> dired-listing-switches to the command line switches you need (as a
> single string; will be converted to a list by the shell).
>
> Oh, if you're on windows this won't help, and neither can I.
>
> --
> * Harald Hanche-Olsen     <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
> - It is undesirable to believe a proposition
>   when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true.
>   -- Bertrand Russell
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
>

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Re: UK date format in Dired

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:15:26 +0000
> From: "Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Thanks for the help, but yes I am on Windows, and all OS regional settings
> are already set up for the UK.

Then what is the problem, exactly?  If your Windows regional settings
are already set up for the UK, Dired should automatically use the date
format you set up via the regional settings.  That's because, on
Windows, Dired uses ls emulation written in Lisp (see ls-lisp.el in
the Emacs distribution), which eventually calls Windows APIs to
display the date and time.  So it should ``just work'' as you expect.

Can you please show us the details of your regional settings (in
Control Panel), and an example of Dired display?

Also, what is your value of the variable
ls-lisp-use-insert-directory-program?

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Graham Smith]

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Eli,

Thanks for the reply

Some Text from Dired below

-rw-rw-rw-   1 Graham   root         36864 2002-07-22  IKingCV2002.doc
  -rw-rw-rw-   1 Graham   root         37376 2002-07-23  IKingCVJuly2002.doc
  drwxrwxrwx   1 Graham   root             0 2005-08-14  Invoices
  -rw-rw-rw-   1 Graham   root         24064 2002-05-29  IonaCVMay2001.doc
  drwxrwxrwx   1 Graham   root             0 10-06 00:35
MFLProfessionalPartner

As you can see dates are year-month-day, rather than day-month-year

Screen shot of regionalisation settings is attached.

I'm not sure how to apply ls-lisp-use-insert-directory-program

If I try

M-x ls-lisp-use-insert-directory-program

I get [no match]


Graham

On 26/01/07, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:15:26 +0000
> > From: "Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com>
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >
> > Thanks for the help, but yes I am on Windows, and all OS regional
> settings
> > are already set up for the UK.
>
> Then what is the problem, exactly?  If your Windows regional settings
> are already set up for the UK, Dired should automatically use the date
> format you set up via the regional settings.  That's because, on
> Windows, Dired uses ls emulation written in Lisp (see ls-lisp.el in
> the Emacs distribution), which eventually calls Windows APIs to
> display the date and time.  So it should ``just work'' as you expect.
>
> Can you please show us the details of your regional settings (in
> Control Panel), and an example of Dired display?
>
> Also, what is your value of the variable
> ls-lisp-use-insert-directory-program?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
>

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Re: UK date format in Dired

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 26.01.2007 um 19:55 schrieb Graham Smith:

> As you can see dates are year-month-day, rather than day-month-year

You might add a customisation like that

	'(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")

On UNIX is lists like:

	drwxrwxr-t  10 root admin     340 Dec 28 10:38 ..
	-rw-rw-r--   1 pete admin   24580 Jan 22 10:53 .DS_Store
	-rw-rw-r--   1 pete admin      54 Jul 11  2005 ADSL
	-rw-rw-r--   1 pete admin      18 Aug 24 20:40 AFM-Maße

The single letter options mean:

	-a all entries, including those that start with . (UNIX special)
	-l long format, with size date, ownership
	-D output for GNU Emacs' dired-mode

--
Greetings

   Pete

Atheism is a non prophet organization.

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Graham Smith]

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Peter,

Thanks, be fine and I have added this line to my .emacs , but it has made no
difference.

Is the "locale" in the code the actual text or am I meant to replace with a
regional name eg "european"

Graham

On 26/01/07, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@web.de> wrote:
>
>
> Am 26.01.2007 um 19:55 schrieb Graham Smith:
>
> > As you can see dates are year-month-day, rather than day-month-year
>
> You might add a customisation like that
>
>         '(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")
>
> On UNIX is lists like:
>
>         drwxrwxr-t  10 root admin     340 Dec 28 10:38 ..
>         -rw-rw-r--   1 pete admin   24580 Jan 22 10:53 .DS_Store
>         -rw-rw-r--   1 pete admin      54 Jul 11  2005 ADSL
>         -rw-rw-r--   1 pete admin      18 Aug 24 20:40 AFM-Maße
>
> The single letter options mean:
>
>         -a all entries, including those that start with . (UNIX special)
>         -l long format, with size date, ownership
>         -D output for GNU Emacs' dired-mode
>
> --
> Greetings
>
>    Pete
>
> Atheism is a non prophet organization.
>
>
>

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Re: UK date format in Dired

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 26.01.2007 um 21:41 schrieb Graham Smith:

> Thanks, be fine and I have added this line to my .emacs , but it  
> has made no difference.
>
> Is the "locale" in the code the actual text or am I meant to  
> replace with a regional name eg "european"

I remember a time on MS DOS or MS Windows where a shell interpreter  
was available, command.com, in its own window (or terminal). Maybe  
you have a similiar thing by hand. It should work to invoke 'ls -- 
help' to see what the ls command understands. The GNU ls command I  
use in my Emacsen on Mac OS X tells me (usually in German, because I  
have the environment variable LANG set to some German value) that it  
accepts:

   -a, --all                  do not ignore entries starting with .
   -A, --almost-all           do not list implied . and ..
   -B, --ignore-backups       do not list implied entries ending with ~
   -D, --dired                generate output designed for Emacs'  
dired mode
   -h, --human-readable       with -l, print sizes in human readable  
format
                                (e.g., 1K 234M 2G)
       --si                   likewise, but use powers of 1000 not 1024
   -l                         use a long listing format
       --time-style=STYLE     with -l, show times using style STYLE:
                              full-iso, long-iso, iso, locale, +FORMAT.
                              FORMAT is interpreted like `date'; if  
FORMAT is
                              FORMAT1<newline>FORMAT2, FORMAT1  
applies to
                              non-recent files and FORMAT2 to recent  
files;
                              if STYLE is prefixed with `posix-', STYLE
                              takes effect only outside the POSIX locale

And I tried exactly

          '(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")

in an UK based environment and it worked. 'ls --version' returns for  
me as first line

	ls (GNU coreutils) 5.96


If you do not have GNU ls available, then GNU Emacs uses some ls  
emulation. This one cannot be switched to display the date in some  
'local' format.


I have one (actually two) more thing(s) set:

	(setq insert-directory-program "gls" dired-use-ls-dired t)

This tells GNU Emacs to use GNU ls instead of a built-in or system ls  
command:

	insert-directory-program is a variable defined in `files.el'.
	
	Documentation:
	Absolute or relative name of the `ls' program used by `insert- 
directory'.


	dired-use-ls-dired is a variable defined in `dired.el'.
	
	Documentation:
	Non-nil means Dired should use `ls --dired'.

Could be they are accessible via customisation ...

--
Greetings

   Pete

Encryption:  A powerful algorithmic encoding technique employed in  
the creation
                      of computer manuals.

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Graham Smith]

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Pete,

I can't say I follow all of this, but I don't think I have GNU installed and
as I understand it, I need this for this line of code to work.

Thanks for your help, maybe I will just live with it.

Graham

On 26/01/07, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@web.de> wrote:
>
>
> Am 26.01.2007 um 21:41 schrieb Graham Smith:
>
> > Thanks, be fine and I have added this line to my .emacs , but it
> > has made no difference.
> >
> > Is the "locale" in the code the actual text or am I meant to
> > replace with a regional name eg "european"
>
> I remember a time on MS DOS or MS Windows where a shell interpreter
> was available, command.com, in its own window (or terminal). Maybe
> you have a similiar thing by hand. It should work to invoke 'ls --
> help' to see what the ls command understands. The GNU ls command I
> use in my Emacsen on Mac OS X tells me (usually in German, because I
> have the environment variable LANG set to some German value) that it
> accepts:
>
>    -a, --all                  do not ignore entries starting with .
>    -A, --almost-all           do not list implied . and ..
>    -B, --ignore-backups       do not list implied entries ending with ~
>    -D, --dired                generate output designed for Emacs'
> dired mode
>    -h, --human-readable       with -l, print sizes in human readable
> format
>                                 (e.g., 1K 234M 2G)
>        --si                   likewise, but use powers of 1000 not 1024
>    -l                         use a long listing format
>        --time-style=STYLE     with -l, show times using style STYLE:
>                               full-iso, long-iso, iso, locale, +FORMAT.
>                               FORMAT is interpreted like `date'; if
> FORMAT is
>                               FORMAT1<newline>FORMAT2, FORMAT1
> applies to
>                               non-recent files and FORMAT2 to recent
> files;
>                               if STYLE is prefixed with `posix-', STYLE
>                               takes effect only outside the POSIX locale
>
> And I tried exactly
>
>           '(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")
>
> in an UK based environment and it worked. 'ls --version' returns for
> me as first line
>
>         ls (GNU coreutils) 5.96
>
>
> If you do not have GNU ls available, then GNU Emacs uses some ls
> emulation. This one cannot be switched to display the date in some
> 'local' format.
>
>
> I have one (actually two) more thing(s) set:
>
>         (setq insert-directory-program "gls" dired-use-ls-dired t)
>
> This tells GNU Emacs to use GNU ls instead of a built-in or system ls
> command:
>
>         insert-directory-program is a variable defined in `files.el'.
>
>         Documentation:
>         Absolute or relative name of the `ls' program used by `insert-
> directory'.
>
>
>         dired-use-ls-dired is a variable defined in `dired.el'.
>
>         Documentation:
>         Non-nil means Dired should use `ls --dired'.
>
> Could be they are accessible via customisation ...
>
> --
> Greetings
>
>    Pete
>
> Encryption:  A powerful algorithmic encoding technique employed in
> the creation
>                       of computer manuals.
>
>
>

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Re: UK date format in Dired

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>
> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:14:31 +0100
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> I remember a time on MS DOS or MS Windows where a shell interpreter  
> was available, command.com, in its own window (or terminal). Maybe  
> you have a similiar thing by hand. It should work to invoke 'ls -- 
> help' to see what the ls command understands. The GNU ls command I  
> use in my Emacsen on Mac OS X tells me (usually in German, because I  
> have the environment variable LANG set to some German value) that it  
> accepts:

Again, Emacs on the OP's platform doesn't use any external program to
produce the Dired listing, it uses the emulation in ls-lisp.el.  So
playing with `ls' switches will not help.

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>
> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:16:54 +0100
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> You might add a customisation like that
> 
> 	'(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")

This won't make any difference on the OP's platform, since the --time
switch is not supported by the ls-lisp.el emulation of ls.

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 27.01.2007 um 11:27 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:

>>
>> You might add a customisation like that
>>
>> 	'(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")
>
> This won't make any difference on the OP's platform, since the --time
> switch is not supported by the ls-lisp.el emulation of ls.

I know – I was referring to an installation of GNU ls. And only to  
this a locale would have an effect, too.

--
Greetings

   Pete

“One cannot live by television, video games, top ten CDs, and dumb  
movies alone”
       (Amiri Baraka 1999)

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>
> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:21:46 +0100
> 
> Am 27.01.2007 um 11:27 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
> 
> >>
> >> You might add a customisation like that
> >>
> >> 	'(dired-listing-switches "-alD --time-style=locale")
> >
> > This won't make any difference on the OP's platform, since the --time
> > switch is not supported by the ls-lisp.el emulation of ls.
> 
> I know – I was referring to an installation of GNU ls. And only to  
> this a locale would have an effect, too.

You are assuming that a port of GNU ls will work on Windows wrt
locales as it does on Posix platforms.  That's a lot to assume; it
should be tested first, especially since there's more than one port of
GNU ls to Windows.

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Tim X]

"Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com> writes:

> Is it possible to get Dired to show dates in UK format.  I have added a line to
> .emacs to show the diary dates in European format, but cannot find any instructions
> to change the format in Dired.
>

This probably depends on whether your using the elisp version of ls or the ls
that is installed on your system (the one which would be called in a shell). 

If your using the elisp ls emulation, check out ls-lisp-format-time-list. I use
the ls-lisp function rather than the native ls program because I also like
dired to list directories first. 

,----[ C-h v ls-lisp-format-time-list RET ]
| ls-lisp-format-time-list is a variable defined in `ls-lisp.el'.
| Its value is 
| ("%b %e %H:%M" "%b %e  %Y")
| 
| 
| 
| Documentation:
| *List of `format-time-string' specs to display file time stamps.
| They are used whenever a locale is not specified to use instead.
| 
| Syntax:  (EARLY-TIME-FORMAT OLD-TIME-FORMAT)
| 
| The EARLY-TIME-FORMAT is used if file has been modified within the
| current year. The OLD-TIME-FORMAT is used for older files.  To use ISO
| 8601 dates, you could set:
| 
| (setq ls-lisp-format-time-list
|        '("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M"
|          "%Y-%m-%d      "))
| 
| You can customize this variable.
| 
| [back]
`----

regards,

Tim

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: UK date format in Dired

[Graham Smith]

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Tim,

Thanks for this, I don't know which version of ls I am using, but I am
running emacsW32, and maybe this has modified some aspect of this. I have
now asked across on its support forum about it.

The "setq" code suggested in the help doesn't make any difference :-(

Indeed, although its a bit confusing with recent files, I think I might just
stick with the ISO date format, and come back to this when I know more about
emacs.

Thanks again for your help.

Graham

On 27/01/07, Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
>
> "Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Is it possible to get Dired to show dates in UK format.  I have added a
> line to
> > .emacs to show the diary dates in European format, but cannot find any
> instructions
> > to change the format in Dired.
> >
>
> This probably depends on whether your using the elisp version of ls or the
> ls
> that is installed on your system (the one which would be called in a
> shell).
>
> If your using the elisp ls emulation, check out ls-lisp-format-time-list.
> I use
> the ls-lisp function rather than the native ls program because I also like
> dired to list directories first.
>
> ,----[ C-h v ls-lisp-format-time-list RET ]
> | ls-lisp-format-time-list is a variable defined in `ls-lisp.el'.
> | Its value is
> | ("%b %e %H:%M" "%b %e  %Y")
> |
> |
> |
> | Documentation:
> | *List of `format-time-string' specs to display file time stamps.
> | They are used whenever a locale is not specified to use instead.
> |
> | Syntax:  (EARLY-TIME-FORMAT OLD-TIME-FORMAT)
> |
> | The EARLY-TIME-FORMAT is used if file has been modified within the
> | current year. The OLD-TIME-FORMAT is used for older files.  To use ISO
> | 8601 dates, you could set:
> |
> | (setq ls-lisp-format-time-list
> |        '("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M"
> |          "%Y-%m-%d      "))
> |
> | You can customize this variable.
> |
> | [back]
> `----
>
> regards,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
>

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Re: UK date format in Dired

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:40:44 +0000
> From: "Graham Smith" <myotisone@gmail.com>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Thanks for this, I don't know which version of ls I am using, but I am
> running emacsW32, and maybe this has modified some aspect of this. I have
> now asked across on its support forum about it.
> 
> The "setq" code suggested in the help doesn't make any difference :-(
> 
> Indeed, although its a bit confusing with recent files, I think I might just
> stick with the ISO date format, and come back to this when I know more about
> emacs.

It turns out this is a feature of ls-lisp, the emulation of the ls
program used by Emacs on Windows.  Interested readers can read the
message I posted to help-emacs-windows with the detailed explanation
(look for the thread with the same Subject as this one).

UK date format in Dired

[Graham Smith]

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Is it possible to get Dired to show dates in UK format.  I have added a line
to .emacs to show the diary dates in European format, but cannot find any
instructions to change the format in Dired.

Thanks,

Graham

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