From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Morally equivalent Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:50:35 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87y1tfzhzm.fsf@undisclosedlocation.com> <877d0zfjqa.fsf@web.de> <87pmer9hrn.fsf@disroot.org> <83zgdv2bls.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7029c7f.fsf@web.de> <875yghdfd6.fsf@yahoo.com> <838rld1ate.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27645"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 18 18:58:44 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1okpvP-00074c-R3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:58:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56110 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okpvM-0000hD-PD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 12:58:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39936) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okpne-0007Ds-3B for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 12:50:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:54223) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okpnb-0004a9-UL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 12:50:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1666111835; bh=xb9l6TWa6VdJ+i/+88+ynuZleuMHoD8AKTeSP5fOADI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=CURb7aQ2GqtCbB4GgkJnIw+jDwXbWkMjtIfWcPxj8hI6E7pQzg30lzmmeJ1oUUv28 s7N4yOSeHxP6NKO9rfccvPDD+fcz4syPBNhBm821BbcyXeZ+8fsXLjYXXhGB+zXSM0 FQvNXA35TQXN+vAkrfjKPI1qf5mIY8h4GRs5ITNY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.127.164] ([92.251.127.164]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs05.server.lan [172.19.170.173]) (via HTTP); Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:50:35 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <838rld1ate.fsf@gnu.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kxjiWufGVRovoJqwu77RWPncQFithDvtvqol/YE6/HGaTPlEyMCL0lvDU2W4psBqvqC7P 8SedpXMIiJhoMeSbffaLSkhuEgvL5gBcgpWVeoH2o7LUYQp3kkBcjUFR018DFblxo3nfQ8oNhTjJ 1gwWJNd71QDnYpEVJFtZz6KRWBtln64bFuCWlSnaPUaQ6oJ7e875u55Todbaal7fcB05PfJg8QCp spci3RJwXQT7l7rHtWIHHP+4S7lj1OdHydukk5/871TKSw/dxd6Tr83Q6oAziS1KqLHIh8ZdNY5k Bg= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:mAJYy8TEcns=:IbhaH1vnpjRkHdR6E9439U g17OeTSaeKDXd7WReRW38NzRHYvQ7hx/FDu3Vd4oukH4s5cbq1G8IZT8xZ3aE/o83yLYKSaz4 OYLjfBxRYI2payPmEC3S7n797wzwW4/UxlTz9AcZYShxDV+xobZLp3Z3L8ypYG/TnUZ6fZoiU aQQxmSr3iXa/EnQgW2xpBfUJ/NoAQl/P4NRmqz2F0YRdl/dvw/S8yv85qm7zDJJoERNaSotIw jp0tFhbWWLUMXm+rlLrspzW4sckz8gRq3S1Ba/k8Us3GyP9vrS19IAnSEKAKSamO2QbmcIrqv 8Djr8Crd7UIr/GUOyTp4yYqtLqrCLsTp7DDzhW6IRrWoXsSiaOkYbjcSrfWhq3L/J7kPs+3Jk FRP9djVXMPMuqyZ60xs4u6Q0LcVwbolVm6AcTio4W7ONJcB6IBVcYQsmXOGEPFDr4uqPmkhQA tIDtGuIABFO493Sg2wv9KLyFT1WPQMjQ/gKNdX8G3b7RxcDtSyFnOAK/m1PL0sijGKTnIdx76 p0P63/0cBBbwHsOwF0ILU8AaauLOjeTeWlWzTB39/F4VTJpBj2fVv8ShXUaOj8CM166BlAUmP K/gF0Puv6yadtM5iAq/czSBX38GQcnrtzBW+vm9Dnw976YGcSUcyfU0uSeUY1KoNCFcI2CWss /qE8K7b+6/7q6tk1WJzh3fnS/MJdsx3T1sxiqDafthAt+27KQAWRRmu17QRV9nAs9ai28x0AP bXSCrB97y6j8heJNejiwNHJTnMlfppO1JIftsc/glVim1gvwIHXnde4YorkhliyaxI59peWo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:140129 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 2:11 AM > From: "Eli Zaretskii" > To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Morally equivalent > > > From: Po Lu > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:39:49 +0800 > > > > How did a simple phrase generate so much noise on this list? > > The noise level on this (and not only this) list is inversely > proportional to the simplicity of the issue. It customarily stems from myself understanding the OP, and criticism on my part is taken as a confrontation by some. As are criticisms between OPs and readers on the list. Nevertheless, after some wrangling, some guidance has resulted in positive changes (e.g. better handling of tex, plan for org-mode to generate documentation). But other problems could persist for a very long time. For instance, the difficulties originating from the fact that info uses tex as the fundamental engine, rather than progressing to a system powered by a latex3 engine. Although this particular solution was simple, I wonder how a change on description considered unclear to some users garnered so much resistance. The fear of losing face could at times trample the need for some changes, even when minor. Although the running of the technical admin part does progress things, some responses are thumbed as others (including myself) am not seen doing much technical work on emacs. At intervals someone screams about wanting to get paid. The latter likely arises when someone is working on tasks that are not important to them.