From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Quote by Knuth Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 18:27:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87r1gbdr6d.fsf@zoho.eu> <87o8b4eiyr.fsf@mbork.pl> <87y2a8ecck.fsf@zoho.eu> <87k0lsdsaw.fsf@mbork.pl> <87eebweq7y.fsf@mbork.pl> <87a6mj5ho0.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14470"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: moasenwood@zoho.eu Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 20 18:31:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5seR-0003U8-29 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 18:31:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39264 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m5seQ-0003dL-0j for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:31:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41164) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m5saq-00006L-9i for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:27:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:46751) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m5sal-0002Hj-Td for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:27:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1626798451; bh=Qd49vtU3owkBXZyWXNsyTrZJVoDVRC+Caln3DoKZnTw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=YeLTWEyro2wYodh96RIrPKO3yo9tTBB0MZsX1Lj2TyfBKklHyYj3TIc2FvdLM6qA1 A094bx4wcrN9pwjOdiYy2DB6uImuuSszEVCukNJResWWRnLkC5enJMH5t3g66GpaWK oTrT/azVMyuu4Wb+DYhwVXitSqXF0EkymaKU+WxE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.40.31] ([92.251.40.31]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs01.server.lan [172.19.170.58]) (via HTTP); Tue, 20 Jul 2021 18:27:31 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87a6mj5ho0.fsf@zoho.eu> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:DD4ZBShn98pMCALWhgLVZoj3HaYQEx1vxvTBRnyow07twMsuftOmau9mFTt5KtC7ZCfo+ S98iA92noF2KDqDRl+ft3mBK/8EPEZ8FK1c0O9P65bCdgL2NjBbQGhMou/YDt6PbBxqUz/jfA+91 bvGSprr5Te/MBESCX922LjOgsu1/jBvhbNbgfQZhRwGh1Y509B1mIoY+ELq/VQt/it9DuDjj7n3h QNWKyG8OfWDs8xKxfN0WUZuaQpXn6y69jaHUEqEf63FS4M1YNtGvhxcS4y0kPoFwy5UUE1UqFei9 BQ= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:G93y6bX2f9Q=:DuagyRmPh+TJo99J4WAmO8 usXpRemNh1YTVjnVKZP6r8hQrkPp8ORwUfJ3/0bWMj6I4rw3/95aZtDmshgh8CIyyZLanYvYE aZURbhdwcu1zd/S4ccnP/7BQI6UJnDP+ql9o4UDL1Mgrk3BGZQNzXyzN8YQM3fJKnAlrsn5g0 MdvoVcYrDNw+viwi0bVF1K8Ymv5ttOVpp8HUJvhUbAMbUxyVkpVsTZHYim3AmLotZgRJx0CBf 8pNHLCuwaNcCx4H57EZ/y0o8jzlHQq+AxvUyc4pbgbG16L4lBFjrhSNZI/s0261md6YMuk1GZ roSXCZfSQ0kKT5I4V/MqogTc1bU3IAqyFnztdih8trqihPlelG1rzzjXA5NDNptbVGlwvbSw/ FcTSTjM8KgXS+PXiMzNUsNVmqcNwAt2TtyxZ+0VdREddVkV00SmXIXeTloGO9FCJfr24W2wKI qp4qmaltnpVgAYCJwxvzIEMlIw3dlYmVowMLgwlhfJmehOsGKECV511Ui5Y1I4cPCxOUq6gVs oXj01tNPGNE2fJ+Qvg5EOAXDEtdsuOpsrt+7FXrLvS4Kf3H6n90X7zfyNc/OKc7oWEmUdyoyR wUx8XVi71n3grpT/XIC/UuHNCXTMp1n0Qjzkl7MHguA7o+3W13hvTP4e7MxBEfZFE+QjF5Y8T jffRT+e0yTHHVe+XrrpThktCV238iBIsHCGGAU6obGQPOamCsoa82hefTrlFpkCuVvL8ab+YQ wtnDgafWOV3I4qMBQ05sJdcFfL9dVz0hqp9hESJUete1es4HL24+0LZKd9EQ8BjydAVsydKL Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:131882 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 at 11:25 AM > From: "Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor" > To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Quote by Knuth > > Christopher Dimech wrote: > > > But Knuth idea goes more than that because he was obsessed > > with presentation and wanted science to be like a work of > > literature. Without understanding that most work is not work > > of literature. > > But that's very normal and, broadly speaking, expected for > a man with the turns that his career took. What would you > expect, the creator of TeX saying, "hey, why do you guys care > so much what the documents _look_ like?" ??? > > Well, _he_ for one cared about that and he developed a good > tool for that! > > "Literate programming" was his way of theorizing about TeX and > the family of tools and methods he developed, pushed for, and > cared for. I understand that now, it wasn't hyped as > a superior model for programming in general. Then it makes > much more sense. He and some others tried published some papers on literate programming, but the results were not as great as they had thought things would be. Things got complicated when working on real programming tasks. It is mostly others around him who hyped literate programming as a super model. It should also be said that he did not do so much programming and mathemat= ics himself. As often in today's academia, it was his students and assistants who worked the most on his ideas. If you can make something more literate, one should go ahead; but pragmati= sm and good design must be the focus. > -- > underground experts united > https://dataswamp.org/~incal > > >