From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: pietru@caramail.com Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Toggle appointment notification Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:20:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20201201195357.GA17507@tuxteam.de> <87h7p4ky4y.fsf@web.de> <875z5jiroy.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28059"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Michael Heerdegen , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 03 18:32:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kksT2-00079C-D3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 18:32:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38686 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kksT1-000195-63 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:32:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54778) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kksHs-0004Ec-77 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:21:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:55743) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kksHp-0002gP-NQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:20:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1607016023; bh=nluCVUcfWjIJhBPGdDHOOEQx7DOnE7EUPp88J0WxoSc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=alnB7DIAY/BdnPnIJ9WSZ3NdDDfagEib2Ore3+B84DayHe1mHGQRWxt8HK5Zn89E3 K6ZuVYc/Q/ZOHah6bhoXxbuEcRI50OIFQcgHF7lJRrI/BdiaeZS94JZDpTMjVFO51Q 7FzBz3ZRX1E0gKUqLo7PqjP8/mwiHo1Xeq/92k4Y= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs11.server.lan [172.19.170.179]) (via HTTP); Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:20:23 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7pNtQCnxTa/xgjgWoAU5sCoaUyKtaw5AFxWpKb+xxUvxLoFDvSPv9edgiavuQXfxAw10r ImKDE9L9R0VuS518jTH6MYz+CoMROlCiHkLSg39unvpiG/yTs1RjcUBZ5odYXvOdTkVuYcCaDYWo cgXB7LtojfZ/f8xgiEU3f1vldjns2l2J1PPKyF3xdyHhEH6yPOWmK404N8hyjrVzIXXDtwjWt+1z 4Rd1dLgvC8zpQbUzXA2x4PZom6SGPNa8ghVuH2sv9jq08xcslJPMdA0g6LKu42C0XiESnL4ZeBWa vc= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:qjAM8m1cZvg=:gQ88SUkllOCwKT5biH5cB4 qTiKDavy0i0EhlsmhTU0uLcnziHg3kksklzCIGh58alCd6Is/Rk9frjfpTjO1KCElI/tY55fj obHcp0/oaKc82HUDhg+HjlFMwA27avFB6iw+1h0CbuVM47VB/QDLIs+IHLVexqyLwHT5/IHrm +ma+GDlDp+eZAKvMdhtTKI/Xd0mwDxerntJwo+LA+Z65VFZ6LD3Cka9cPC0fAmz8vC7sIPqE8 o43jrpkBq5JRUCvqP8wx8sa/5qGnk/5z6D9OuuekcwZ3kUNYe5UzjQza09bWhvr/tQwgagziV AoskciYKifVSa8ObaVvC9YH/PJw4EuLOMpYewtPQ/PFAeaFPPmLTMyxx2revZBHE7vo07QW44 U7JmTGHrLd2FrB+X0tv0JRj68M3bmE2q7Cm80FfvRZZi6JbYK5DIJSpcdxa7EOWZsWQYqb/om dPe6z5yauHz3C1m3/cbvlXFaQW6hUjHhmomfWpT35e2sW4F65pmofjDMegCbMyFD2LAU09LER k3Mef2zi9vOKtJl9i0Vz6Sgz5u5sHNufDHJ4OmyXRM8CAAeZeOThOhG942mupwA83ZdsH22AC EMT90VcuCixF4= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=pietru@caramail.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:125899 Archived-At: Please stop ranting forever whilst telling us how to approach our work. We know more than anyone how to conduct our field studies. Regards Pietru > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2020 at 6:09 PM > From: "Jean Louis" > To: pietru@caramail.com > Cc: "Michael Heerdegen" , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.o= rg > Subject: Re: Toggle appointment notification > > * pietru@caramail.com [2020-12-03 18:21]: > > There are quite some things for elaboration. Could we start with > > some areas that concern the agenda. I might not know all aspects, > > and there will be things that might already have a solution. In > > other instances there could some capability that could be tedious > > and some simplification could help us a lot. What would be your > > position on this? > > I see it this way: if anybody is using org-agenda that means that > methodology of planning was wrong in th first place. Before 25-30 > years I was simply using notebooks, papers and text files in > computer and I still have such and I can see nothing changed in my > planning until today. Maybe I learned from different foundation. > > My planning always have objectives or purposes or goals. > > 1. Objective > - task > - task > - task > > All tasks have purpose to achieve its senior objective. If senior > objective or purpose have been achieved those subordinate tasks become > redundant. > > If there is objective THAT IS action to be solved. There is no need to > write everywhere TODO and then search through plethora of files for > variety of tasks in the same time. Sorry it makes no sense to me. > > When person goes to work that person is usually organized or somebody > organized the person's work so it is usually quite clear what is to be > done, because work is organized in chronological and logical > order. What is to be done is already known. Only by lack of > organization one has to use software program like org agenda to see > what is to be done. If organizational methodology is good in the first > place person will know before the day what is next. > > > Could start with org agenda because people currently use it more and > > has more elaborate display. Would it suit you? Here we are quite > > comfortable as work goes, but other teams frequently work at tough > > sites, making ease of use paramount. > > System that person focuses on objective and does few things at a time > related to objective is more useful. > > That means thinking from top to bottom. Not from bottom to top. Org > mode is already set by methodology and by people insisting on it to > drive other people into complex situations. I do believe it solves > problems but it solves problems to organize the procrastination. If > there is no procrastination then no org-agenda need to search through > computer files to find out what is next to be done. People have been > handling problems of life organizing before computers and before Org > agenda. Its fundamental design is so much fine and nice, but when it > comes to organizing things that is sadly one of last tools, there are > many good software tools for organizing life, and many CRM programs > are way better in doing so. > > What is meant with bottom-to-top thinking is when users write > unrelated notes in vicinity of unrelated tasks inside of unrelated > files and file names in vicinity of unrelated directories. That > results with mess and further development of Org software with attempt > to handle such mess. Then maybe in future they get some kind of idea > what is objective for it. > > Thinking from top-to-bottom would mean to think of objectives. Of > objective or purpose or goal is reached, subordinate information > becomes redundant. When objectives are faced every day there is no > need to mark tasks as TODO and consider the senior objective DONE only > when subordinate tasks are marked as DONE. It is the other way > around. When senior purpose have been achieved, all subordinate tasks > become not important. I wish people would like more into real life > situation and design software by how real life works. > > Software cannot teach people methodology of planning but it can easily > drive them into unknown directions so much worse of those well > established planning methodologies. And that is what Org mode > does. The more users use it the more they get hooked on it and many > will procrastinate while enjoying the illusion they are getting > organized. > > Org agenda is summary of mess. It is not summary of organized > structure. If one needs to use org agenda to find out what is next, or > which meetings are to be done, or whatever like that, it means that > organization from top to bottom is not there and person is much > confused in life. I agree this may help many people. > > In last 5 years of using Org I have not almost ever used Org agenda > for my planning. I have just tested its function, never required its > use. > > My files are organized by subjects which are ordered by subordinate > purposes for which sake subordinate tasks are being executed. Because > of this simple methodology from top to bottom there is no need to > "search" within agenda, or to ask computer to give agenda list. It is > already there in its place in the file, in front of my face. Org mode > could sort things way better in general but is not yet so. > > No wonder people devise their own systems and than train others like > SMOS. > > SMOS - A Comprehensive Self-Management System > https://smos.cs-syd.eu/features > > Much better systems for handling tasks are almost any CRM systems. As > every task is related to people, if not other people than oneself. But > we do tasks related to other people, and often supervise tasks that > other people have to do as assigned by ourselves. While this basic > premise is present in all CRM software systems I have encountered it > is not in Org mode. > > 1. Create some action, describe what is to be done. > > 2. Relate to contact and relate to group or organization. > > 3. Assign to one person or group of people together. > > 4. Click to share. > > Computer should do the necessary repetitive tasks. One should be able > to get list of all tasks assigned to other people or related to > specific contacts or specific organizations. > > Both the contacts database and organizations database do not exist in > Org mode as foundation for organizing. That is out of my world where I > deal with people and groups of people. When I think of actions I think > normally first of people or organizations and then what has to be done > for them. > > Users who wish to organize life may spare their efforts by using > software well designed for that. There are many choices: > > https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted#project-managem= ent > > Monica - Personal Relationship Manager > https://github.com/monicahq/monica > > Jean >