From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Quote by Knuth Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 09:41:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87o8bgg6br.fsf@zoho.eu> <20210705154121.GB6395@tuxteam.de> <878s2j2onn.fsf@zoho.eu> <87r1gbdr6d.fsf@zoho.eu> <87o8b4eiyr.fsf@mbork.pl> <87y2a8ecck.fsf@zoho.eu> <87k0lsdsaw.fsf@mbork.pl> <87eebweq7y.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8212"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Emanuel Berg To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 18 09:42:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m51Rm-0001xn-TJ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:131822 Archived-At: > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 6:43 AM > From: "Marcin Borkowski" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: "Emanuel Berg" , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Quote by Knuth > > > On 2021-07-15, at 08:21, Christopher Dimech wrote: > > >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 6:06 PM > >> From: "Marcin Borkowski" > >> To: "Emanuel Berg" > >> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > >> Subject: Re: Quote by Knuth > >> > >> > >> On 2021-07-15, at 00:53, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emac= s text editor wrote: > >> > >> > But without the symbolic notation it isn't really math, is it, > >> > because the natural language, no matter how careful one is, > >> > can still be misinterpreted, interpreted in several ways, it > >> > can be translated, made fun of ... > >> > >> Interesting, but false. What Greeks did was most certainly mathemati= cs > >> even if they had little to none symbolism. > > > > We don't do greek mathematics anymore. It was mainly geometric, which= became > > an ingrained technique that stall development until Liebniz introduced= some useful > > notation. Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics needs compact notation. Inverse Est= imation > > is another example. > > Well, don't we do the very same mathematics as ancient Greeks did, only > expressing it in a different language? (And of course, we now know > more, since our knowledge grows. OTOH, many things in contemporary > mathematics are not very trustworthy due to the complexity and high > probability of errors.) I understand that. About twenty years ago, I tried it. It gets things even more complicated than they are. I rather have a number of small well contained implementations. I disagree with Knuth that a practitioner of literate programming becomes an essayist, whose main concern is with exposition and excellence of style, rather than how to perform the actual computation. The biggest problem has always been how to do something, rather than how t= o describe it. I gave up trying to put everything in one file. What is nee= d is good categorisation of the different aspects involved. Though, categorisa= tion is very time consuming. I see many writing scholarly papers describing th= ings which are actually useless. What happens is that the problem could get ex= asperated. And if done by students the problems will became even worse. Computation = is today still very far from the archaic system many mathematics departments operat= e. I know a few professors myself claiming to work on the dynamic properties = of everything and the bullshit they say they have developed. They say they develop the = theories, they develop the computational algorithms needed, they do everything. Unt= il you do some work with them and realise there's not much to their work. Welcome to the= world of academia in the western world. Consider Ramanujan and Perelman for instance. Both have worked from some = pit hole making great soup. Modern societies have started treating everything as in some = state of illness. The second largest industry on the planet is pharmaceuticals, which makes = too much lousy soup. You just have to look at how the development of the coronavirus vaccines a= re happening ! Everyday, you have to add something else to them, else they won't work. I= f you're constantly creating nasty chemistry, how can life within you unde= rstand that you're seeking well-being?