From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RE: RE: Auto Fill Comments Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:41:18 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87pn419aha.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <20201126160013.GD28931@tuxteam.de> <20201126182734.GA5175@tuxteam.de> <54331aa0-6a9a-4809-9f2d-88deee31558b@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6801"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 03:43:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kiTjT-0001g8-MO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:43:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45380 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kiTjQ-0008Mo-Ie for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 21:43:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55252) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kiThQ-0008Mh-1t for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 21:41:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:44093) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kiThN-00061B-M7 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 21:41:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1606444878; bh=/LMugkO5QvnisIeQSUBVhmyiWAw4WO92CePoqG++gr4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=JHIjRe/L+YDywoRQbhzFvxeMv6X8Zh6TRgS3YxUEGs7hpJ2XgAdmRragvONhUrjH9 AQMGjbJ39TUQm2dqyWRvZg+SBept/V1Roruhc8xPhmxyaoi1gyRDhtw6oT1t33kbhi LfGtjBOdL/feK5padfhDJysa8zVWRULZZehBdJXQ= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs06.server.lan [172.19.170.174]) (via HTTP); Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:41:18 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2fu5hb2Y/jr5m3pq67SGhDVar90IzeJBwKOJ20lxAzW8SjFSSp1KFPUKA4iHIyArJbyXW L61WBfdhqv1k7ZDfYvlFZIqKU6zF1th+1gN3W4FYCtCSSub1+Kai1+ROFfRFNHEdTEpfIijuCf6J 4QX8lOkJcCjy4rISyTZWhzforOQmyUMSG0AWxOv2MZaIS4aSq2GeaZQz+JXfbyh4dQb1wthC2W6X fejzP2sMpaFLpae848q9OYb0ilGsBxyZnQg6Lnp3roS6TNNomzGSIvhL5QPDDgxJTt8Tg2NjOGoA fY= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:5Wof+y0dNaE=:2SVlQ5eBR/+fZ4AY+BApsw IQ7IotDdh4AH9ftBr3lVrtd9b/ywo8+1WucXSt1dnCp7834TCsGOUO4ERhHLnP0UpjzXySiEl muG0TPrr9q4RrOerMAa3bxmE2v9lNll21QtKHtN5hfBrn03CI5LvivISBBkdwJNgZiKQKOQND Vm7xTOjTf9rUcpJDITk+r8GfTGt8YVLGlovqTjLQbAcQ3KJtFDV3TOTA4D8d8MZ+p7Ov5Nj7N P3UJGg9hZsFx6rRQ8YLULJWl3tmygoESLE+4IxXMXtGRSf0oSSCn/nlOJ7/MzL4cBz9GspOX1 JUJ7wu79G3qVL+zLC3zr2FL20nZpq+HOVX7wR+4/VyCFe/I1jWPL1YskFPpjvLP750xXpVtvx wt581Nw+6WL0MN/j8/9ENToLpVaPZW0h4E+7xdK9/ASLxYS44KEyxuCBU1u2LafQZDFU8Ui61 oX7Pz3r5vub0Vi6UyjNWK0ooO+ySZ13koSAdzPHc3vIEyXMN0p6oP3koIe2aiAC4eJrnKA/HR 88uHUe+XbaFp+CQtu1S8td26y7Z3ORPICJwO2nb01jKIB51553EpPRzpKjbCxoRz2fxc8wPzX XxR9AHUiVT92M= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:125610 Archived-At: > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 at 3:15 AM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Subject: RE: RE: Auto Fill Comments > > > The manuals should be rewritten because they are > > incomprehensible. Perhaps it was good in the eighties. > > Maybe. Or maybe programmers in the eighties > read more? or better? Maybe, but today there is a problem of too much material. > Would you like to contribute to rewriting or > otherwise improving the manuals? The job's > open. Sure, I'm working on it. > > It continues forever. > > Yep, Emacs gives you a lifetime of learning, > if you let it. > > > Consider "face customisation" for instance, > > which just means font. > > Bzzzzzzt! Nope. But thanks for playing. > > > Nobody fuckin reads a manual with 17 nodes. > > I do. I'm not nobody. > > Those who developed Emacs, and those who > continue to develop it, feel that Emacs doc > is vitally important to what Emacs is and > what it aims to be. Yes, for those who have spent quite some time on emacs it could be good enough. > Personally, I couldn't be more thankful for > that perspective. That's my Thanksgiving > message... > > > You don't know which one to use, which > > commands are most useful, and so on. > > You don't know if you don't read - true. > You don't know if you don't try - true. > > > The problem gets compounded because every > > esoteric command is there. > > No. Most commands (and most functions, keys, > faces,...) are intentionally NOT documented > in the manuals. Likewise, for most "esoteric" > commands (functions,...). > > Your verdict reminds me of Emperor Joseph > telling Mozart there were too many notes... Do you think most are Mozart? We ain't! > Too many books in the library. Internet's > too big. What's a body to do? > > > You are just insisting on something bad > > and inefficient. > > You are just insisting that people help > you find info that's easy for you to find, > yourself. > > I don't insist that you read the manuals. > Not at all. Your loss, if you don't. Or > maybe you'll be able to continue getting > spoon-fed here. Good luck with that. Wait a while ;) > I'm actually glad people here help you. > I was trying to let you know that people > might be all the more likely to help if you > show some research effort. Will ask more complicated as I work more on it. I got into elisp to help me in what I was doing without too much time reading for the joy of it. But yes, I should do it. > Do I think Emacs users should ask questions? > Absolutely. Do I sometimes help Emacs users > by answering questions? Sure do - every day. > > But the single best way I can help in that > regard is to help learn how to "Ask Emacs". > https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/ > ___ > > You wanna know how it was in the _real_ > good-ole days? > > http://www2.phy.ilstu.edu/pte/209content/agassiz.html One got to endure with what one's got I suppose.