Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Leo Liu]

hi，friends

I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have completed 10 chapters

I want to know if the project has a unified translation platform or plan？Avoid duplication of work。

thx.

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Leo Liu wrote:

> hi friends
>
> I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
> completed 10 chapters
>
> I want to know if the project has a unified translation
> platform or planAvoid duplication of work

Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
languages. (At least the French should have a translated
emacs(1) man page, tho.)

I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
without English.

As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)

You should put your manual on the official page if everything
checks out :)

  https://www.gnu.org/manual/
  webmasters@gnu.org

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

Hi.

I translated  Emacs's user manual and elisp reference manual  since version
24.5.

I am translating and updating manuals by po4a and GNU gettext(
https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-doc-ja).

This translating work have been came up with my personal RTF + Googling +
try & error, because I did translating works alone.

Currently I contacted Emacs user community in Japan, and hope translating
and updating manuals continuously by project with user community.

Best,

2021年1月6日(水) 午後2:24 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>:

> Leo Liu wrote:
>
> > hi friends
> >
> > I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
> > completed 10 chapters
> >
> > I want to know if the project has a unified translation
> > platform or planAvoid duplication of work
>
> Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
> languages. (At least the French should have a translated
> emacs(1) man page, tho.)
>
> I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
> hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
> learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
> unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
> without English.
>
> As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
> benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
> put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)
>
> You should put your manual on the official page if everything
> checks out :)
>
>   https://www.gnu.org/manual/
>   webmasters@gnu.org
>
> --
> underground experts united
> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>
>
>

=?gb18030?B?UmWjuiBJcyB0aGVyZSBhIHRyYW5zbGF0aW9uIHBsYXRmb3JtIGZvciB0aGUgRW1hY3MgbWFudWFs?=

[=?gb18030?B?sbzF3LXE0KGy3Q==?=]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset="gb18030", Size: 2828 bytes --]

Hi


I wish I could see your project earlier£¬My current way is to use po4a ¡¢ gettext¡¢ makeinfo¡¢ omegaT together¡£


It took me a long time to find this feasible way¡£


Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT platform? like weblate or pootle, etc


In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.


Anyway, I know I am not alone anymore.


------------------ Ô­Ê¼Óʼþ ------------------
·¢¼þÈË:                                                                                                                        "Takesi Ayanokoji"                                                                                    <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com&gt;;
·¢ËÍʱ¼ä:&nbsp;2021Äê1ÔÂ6ÈÕ(ÐÇÆÚÈý) ÍíÉÏ10:40
ÊÕ¼þÈË:&nbsp;"Emanuel Berg"<moasenwood@zoho.eu&gt;;"help-gnu-emacs"<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org&gt;;

Ö÷Ìâ:&nbsp;Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual



Hi.

I translated&nbsp; Emacs's user manual and elisp reference manual&nbsp; since version
24.5.

I am translating and updating manuals by po4a and GNU gettext(
https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-doc-ja).

This translating work have been came up with my personal RTF + Googling +
try &amp; error, because I did translating works alone.

Currently I contacted Emacs user community in Japan, and hope translating
and updating manuals continuously by project with user community.

Best,

2021Äê1ÔÂ6ÈÕ(Ë®) Îçáá2:24 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org&gt;:

&gt; Leo Liu wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; hi friends
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
&gt; &gt; completed 10 chapters
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I want to know if the project has a unified translation
&gt; &gt; platform or planAvoid duplication of work
&gt;
&gt; Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
&gt; languages. (At least the French should have a translated
&gt; emacs(1) man page, tho.)
&gt;
&gt; I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
&gt; hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
&gt; learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
&gt; unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
&gt; without English.
&gt;
&gt; As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
&gt; benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
&gt; put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)
&gt;
&gt; You should put your manual on the official page if everything
&gt; checks out :)
&gt;
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; https://www.gnu.org/manual/
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; webmasters@gnu.org
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; underground experts united
&gt; http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
&gt; https://dataswamp.org/~incal
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

Hi,

No I cannot, because I don't understand any CATs (weblate or pootle, ...
honestly speeking, I don't know the word "CAT").

Best,

2021年1月7日(木) 午前0:05 奔跑的小草 <467195537@qq.com>:

> Hi
>
> I wish I could see your project earlier，My current way is to use po4a 、
> gettext、 makeinfo、 omegaT together。
>
> It took me a long time to find this feasible way。
>
> Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT
> platform? like weblate or pootle, etc
>
> In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.
>
> Anyway, I know I am not alone anymore.
>
> ------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
> *发件人:* "Takesi Ayanokoji" <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>;
> *发送时间:* 2021年1月6日(星期三) 晚上10:40
> *收件人:* "Emanuel Berg"<moasenwood@zoho.eu>;"help-gnu-emacs"<
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>;
> *主题:* Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual
>
> Hi.
>
> I translated  Emacs's user manual and elisp reference manual  since version
> 24.5.
>
> I am translating and updating manuals by po4a and GNU gettext(
> https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-doc-ja).
>
> This translating work have been came up with my personal RTF + Googling +
> try & error, because I did translating works alone.
>
> Currently I contacted Emacs user community in Japan, and hope translating
> and updating manuals continuously by project with user community.
>
> Best,
>
> 2021年1月6日(水) 午後2:24 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
> editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>:
>
> > Leo Liu wrote:
> >
> > > hi friends
> > >
> > > I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
> > > completed 10 chapters
> > >
> > > I want to know if the project has a unified translation
> > > platform or planAvoid duplication of work
> >
> > Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
> > languages. (At least the French should have a translated
> > emacs(1) man page, tho.)
> >
> > I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
> > hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
> > learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
> > unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
> > without English.
> >
> > As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
> > benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
> > put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)
> >
> > You should put your manual on the official page if everything
> > checks out :)
> >
> >   https://www.gnu.org/manual/
> >   webmasters@gnu.org
> >
> > --
> > underground experts united
> > http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
> > https://dataswamp.org/~incal
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Leo Liu <467195537@qq.com>
> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 12:19:52 +0800
> 
> I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have completed 10 chapters
> 
> I want to know if the project has a unified translation platform or plan？Avoid duplication of work。

No, we don't have any such plans, nor infrastructure to support
manuals in different languages, like we have, e.g., for the
tutorials.  Part of this is a Texinfo problem (it doesn't have any
standard way of having several manuals for the same program), and part
is ours.

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Takesi Ayanokoji wrote:

> No I cannot, because I don't understand any CATs (weblate or
> pootle, ... honestly speeking, I don't know the word "CAT").

Cathode of Abundant Text

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

Hi,

Except aspects of deployment format's issues, the worrk that translating
the original document to any languages is achieved in GNUN in GNU(
https://www.gnu.org/software/gnun/)?

Is this a CAT(sorry, I don't really know CAT.)?

Best,


2021年1月7日(木) 午前0:14 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> > From: Leo Liu <467195537@qq.com>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 12:19:52 +0800
> >
> > I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have completed 10
> chapters
> >
> > I want to know if the project has a unified translation platform or
> plan？Avoid duplication of work。
>
> No, we don't have any such plans, nor infrastructure to support
> manuals in different languages, like we have, e.g., for the
> tutorials.  Part of this is a Texinfo problem (it doesn't have any
> standard way of having several manuals for the same program), and part
> is ours.
>
>

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

Ah!, Cathode of Abundant Text, Okey, wait a moments, ...sorry.

Maybe I need more study about this after enough sleep.

2021年1月7日(木) 午前0:36 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>:

> Takesi Ayanokoji wrote:
>
> > No I cannot, because I don't understand any CATs (weblate or
> > pootle, ... honestly speeking, I don't know the word "CAT").
>
> Cathode of Abundant Text
>
> --
> underground experts united
> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>
>
>

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[tomas]

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On Thu, Jan 07, 2021 at 12:45:51AM +0900, Takesi Ayanokoji wrote:
> Ah!, Cathode of Abundant Text, Okey, wait a moments, ...sorry.

I think Emanuel was joking. CAT here means (probably) "computer
assisted translation".

Of course, it is a very fuzzy concept, because there are many
different ways a computer can help doing translations. For an
overview, see the Wikipedia [1] page.

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-assisted_translation

 - t

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Re: Re： Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Stefan Monnier]

> I wish I could see your project earlier，My current way is to use po4a 、
> gettext、 makeinfo、 omegaT together。
>
> It took me a long time to find this feasible way。
>
> Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT
> platform? like weblate or pootle, etc
>
> In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.

Just a comment from the sidelines (the kind of "translations" I do on
computers only applies to computer languages ;-):

I'm really happy to see people taking on this challenge.  It's a fair
amount of work (first, to do the initial translation, and then to keep
it up to date), so I have a lot of respect for your effort.
Also, I think it's of great benefit to Emacs.

As Eli said, currently on the Emacs side, there is no
support/infrastructure setup for that, but we would be happy to help if
there's something we can do.  We'd also be happy to distribute the
resulting translations along with Emacs.


        Stefan

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[黃炳熙]

Leo Liu <467195537@qq.com> writes:

> hi，friends
>
> I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have completed 10 chapters
>
> I want to know if the project has a unified translation platform or plan？Avoid duplication of work。

Because Emacs key-binding(s) are so diffcult, normal users don't touch
Emacs i guess. Rather than, i think it is better to make tutorial in
local languages such as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. ...

It was another opinion.

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

黃炳熙 wrote:

> Because Emacs key-binding(s) are so diffcult, normal users
> don't touch Emacs i guess.

Difficult? Are they? Why do you think so?

> Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

Your name is back to Korean. Didn't like how it looked all of
a sudden? It happens :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[奔跑的小草]

hi.


I think that there must be a manual in the local language first, and then a tutorial. After all, the tutorial is to summarize and simplify.


If you need to know more about the specific content, no manual would be very unfriendly.


And, the tutorial is for personal understanding of a certain version. It will be outdated and subjectively judged.


So I think the manual is more important than the tutorial.


------------------ Original ------------------
From:                                                                                                                        "黃炳熙"                                                                                    <soyeomul@vladivostok.yw.doraji.xyz&gt;;
Date:&nbsp;Thu, Jan 7, 2021 08:50 AM
To:&nbsp;"help-gnu-emacs"<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org&gt;;

Subject:&nbsp;Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual



Leo Liu <467195537@qq.com&gt; writes:

&gt; hi，friends
&gt;
&gt; I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have completed 10 chapters
&gt;
&gt; I want to know if the project has a unified translation platform or plan？Avoid duplication of work。

Because Emacs key-binding(s) are so diffcult, normal users don't touch
Emacs i guess. Rather than, i think it is better to make tutorial in
local languages such as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. ...

It was another opinion.

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

奔跑的小草 wrote:

> I think that there must be a manual in the local language
> first, and then a tutorial. After all, the tutorial is to
> summarize and simplify.
>
> If you need to know more about the specific content, no
> manual would be very unfriendly.
>
> And, the tutorial is for personal understanding of a certain
> version. It will be outdated and subjectively judged.
>
> So I think the manual is more important than the tutorial.

Perhaps, but it requires immensely more work than the/a
simple/short tutorial, for which the success rate, one
imagines, is much higher.

Maybe more people read the tutorial as well? When they are
ready to move from tutorial to manual, maybe they know good
enough English already? (IMO the on-line help is the most
important piece of documentation.)

Also, one can argue that the "local language", as you call it,
for computers is actually English!

To provide an example, consider people who translates GNU
manuals. They need to know good English!

Well, obviously...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> 黃炳熙 wrote:
>
>> Because Emacs key-binding(s) are so diffcult, normal users
>> don't touch Emacs i guess.
>
> Difficult? Are they? Why do you think so?

For exampe, i can't exit Emacs by key "C-x C-c". So for 6 years, i did
exit Emacs by mosue click or rebooting(`sudo reboot').

>> Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee
>
> Your name is back to Korean. Didn't like how it looked all of
> a sudden? It happens :)

My names does re-produce as US-ASCII only with you Emanul. Default is
Korean(황병희 or 黃炳熙) in Gnus.

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[黃炳熙]

"奔跑的小草" <467195537@qq.com> writes:

> hi.
>
> I think that there must be a manual in the local language first, and
> then a tutorial. After all, the tutorial is to summarize and simplify.
>
> If you need to know more about the specific content, no manual would be very unfriendly.
>
> And, the tutorial is for personal understanding of a certain
> version. It will be outdated and subjectively judged.
>
> So I think the manual is more important than the tutorial.

OK, i got it, and thanks for your hard work!!! Indeed...

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

> For exampe, i can't exit Emacs by key "C-x C-c". So for 6
> years, i did exit Emacs by mosue click or rebooting(`sudo
> reboot').

But you can bind it to whatever!

I, for example, have disabled it. I kill Emacs, not often but
it happens, with M-x kill-emacs RET

Emacs is like built on keyboard shortcuts pretty much so if
you have a problem with that it sure is an uphill battle.

> My names does re-produce as US-ASCII only with you Emanul.
> Default is Korean(황병희 or 黃炳熙) in Gnus.

That true, I'd be damned...

"Emanul" :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Leo Liu]

Hi.

I found a suitable translation platform, Crowdin
It is an online platform that allows multiple people to collaborate, supports multiple versions and multiple target languages

I'm using its free version and it works pretty well.
Those who are interested can come and have a look.

https://crowdin.com/project/emacs-manual-chinese <https://crowdin.com/project/emacs-manual-chinese>

接下来，我将会在这上面进行翻译工作

> 2021年1月7日 01:05，Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> 写道：
> 
>> I wish I could see your project earlier，My current way is to use po4a 、
>> gettext、 makeinfo、 omegaT&nbsp;together。
>> 
>> It took me a long time to find this feasible way。
>> 
>> Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT
>> platform? like weblate or pootle, etc
>> 
>> In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.
> 
> Just a comment from the sidelines (the kind of "translations" I do on
> computers only applies to computer languages ;-):
> 
> I'm really happy to see people taking on this challenge.  It's a fair
> amount of work (first, to do the initial translation, and then to keep
> it up to date), so I have a lot of respect for your effort.
> Also, I think it's of great benefit to Emacs.
> 
> As Eli said, currently on the Emacs side, there is no
> support/infrastructure setup for that, but we would be happy to help if
> there's something we can do.  We'd also be happy to distribute the
> resulting translations along with Emacs.
> 
> 
>        Stefan
> 
> 
> 

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'm using its free version and it works pretty well.
> Those who are interested can come and have a look.
>
> https://crowdin.com/project/emacs-manual-chinese <https://crowdin.com/project/emacs-manual-chinese>

Cursory look suggests this is "free as in free beer", i.e. proprietary,
so not something the Emacs project can recommend (or even just
point to.  Actually even pointing to such services in `help-gnu-emacs`
is frowned upon).


        Stefan

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Janusz S. Bień]

On Sat, Jan 09 2021 at 11:39 -05, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> I'm using its free version and it works pretty well.
>> Those who are interested can come and have a look.
>>
>> https://crowdin.com/project/emacs-manual-chinese <https://crowdin.com/project/emacs-manual-chinese>
>
> Cursory look suggests this is "free as in free beer", i.e. proprietary,
> so not something the Emacs project can recommend (or even just
> point to.  Actually even pointing to such services in `help-gnu-emacs`
> is frowned upon).

I was using it some time ago and I think its main advantage is a
dictionary of phrases making reasonable suggestion.

So instead od frowning offer a good alternative. E.g. you can revive

https://web.archive.org/web/20070317101647/http://open-tran.eu:80/
https://web.archive.org/web/20131230040211/http://open-tran.eu/

The code is here

https://github.com/sliwers/open-tran

but requires substantial updating, cf.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/open-tran/gO_c6ScjMUk/xAAXxFmWEAAJ

Best regards

Janusz

-- 
             ,   
Janusz S. Bien
emeryt (emeritus)
https://sites.google.com/view/jsbien



-- 
             ,   
Janusz S. Bien
emeryt (emeritus)
https://sites.google.com/view/jsbien

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

Hi.

Just information.
Since this thread, I tried some CAT, but before I know, github's 3rd party
application GitLocalize became able to handle GNU gettext format fikes.

My sample GitLocalize
(it requires github account and authorize the GitLocalize application.
though...).
https://gitlocalize.com/repo/6629

And I create template repository based on my translating work for Emacs
Japanese manuals.
https://github.com/ayatakesi/template-translating-texinfo

Jusi FYI.

Best,

2021年1月7日(木) 午前0:05 奔跑的小草 <467195537@qq.com>:

> Hi
>
> I wish I could see your project earlier，My current way is to use po4a 、
> gettext、 makeinfo、 omegaT together。
>
> It took me a long time to find this feasible way。
>
> Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT
> platform? like weblate or pootle, etc
>
> In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.
>
> Anyway, I know I am not alone anymore.
>
> ------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
> *发件人:* "Takesi Ayanokoji" <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>;
> *发送时间:* 2021年1月6日(星期三) 晚上10:40
> *收件人:* "Emanuel Berg"<moasenwood@zoho.eu>;"help-gnu-emacs"<
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>;
> *主题:* Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual
>
> Hi.
>
> I translated  Emacs's user manual and elisp reference manual  since version
> 24.5.
>
> I am translating and updating manuals by po4a and GNU gettext(
> https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-doc-ja).
>
> This translating work have been came up with my personal RTF + Googling +
> try & error, because I did translating works alone.
>
> Currently I contacted Emacs user community in Japan, and hope translating
> and updating manuals continuously by project with user community.
>
> Best,
>
> 2021年1月6日(水) 午後2:24 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
> editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>:
>
> > Leo Liu wrote:
> >
> > > hi friends
> > >
> > > I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
> > > completed 10 chapters
> > >
> > > I want to know if the project has a unified translation
> > > platform or planAvoid duplication of work
> >
> > Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
> > languages. (At least the French should have a translated
> > emacs(1) man page, tho.)
> >
> > I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
> > hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
> > learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
> > unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
> > without English.
> >
> > As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
> > benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
> > put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)
> >
> > You should put your manual on the official page if everything
> > checks out :)
> >
> >   https://www.gnu.org/manual/
> >   webmasters@gnu.org
> >
> > --
> > underground experts united
> > http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
> > https://dataswamp.org/~incal
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

Did you stop using Transifex ?

As I mentionned earlier on Twitter, I'm using OmegaT (GPL/java) and the April (gitea) forge (April is a French association that promotes free software).

https://forge.chapril.org/brandelune/documentation_emacs

I have no official confirmation yet, but I proposed to make a short presentation about that project at the soon to come EmacsConf.

Jean-Christophe 

> On Oct 17, 2021, at 19:23, Takesi Ayanokoji <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Just information.
> Since this thread, I tried some CAT, but before I know, github's 3rd party
> application GitLocalize became able to handle GNU gettext format fikes.
> 
> My sample GitLocalize
> (it requires github account and authorize the GitLocalize application.
> though...).
> https://gitlocalize.com/repo/6629
> 
> And I create template repository based on my translating work for Emacs
> Japanese manuals.
> https://github.com/ayatakesi/template-translating-texinfo
> 
> Jusi FYI.
> 
> Best,
> 
> 2021年1月7日(木) 午前0:05 奔跑的小草 <467195537@qq.com>:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> I wish I could see your project earlier，My current way is to use po4a 、
>> gettext、 makeinfo、 omegaT together。
>> 
>> It took me a long time to find this feasible way。
>> 
>> Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT
>> platform? like weblate or pootle, etc
>> 
>> In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.
>> 
>> Anyway, I know I am not alone anymore.
>> 
>> ------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
>> *发件人:* "Takesi Ayanokoji" <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>;
>> *发送时间:* 2021年1月6日(星期三) 晚上10:40
>> *收件人:* "Emanuel Berg"<moasenwood@zoho.eu>;"help-gnu-emacs"<
>> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>;
>> *主题:* Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> I translated  Emacs's user manual and elisp reference manual  since version
>> 24.5.
>> 
>> I am translating and updating manuals by po4a and GNU gettext(
>> https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-doc-ja).
>> 
>> This translating work have been came up with my personal RTF + Googling +
>> try & error, because I did translating works alone.
>> 
>> Currently I contacted Emacs user community in Japan, and hope translating
>> and updating manuals continuously by project with user community.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 2021年1月6日(水) 午後2:24 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
>> editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>:
>> 
>>> Leo Liu wrote:
>>> 
>>>> hi friends
>>>> 
>>>> I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
>>>> completed 10 chapters
>>>> 
>>>> I want to know if the project has a unified translation
>>>> platform or planAvoid duplication of work
>>> 
>>> Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
>>> languages. (At least the French should have a translated
>>> emacs(1) man page, tho.)
>>> 
>>> I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
>>> hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
>>> learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
>>> unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
>>> without English.
>>> 
>>> As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
>>> benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
>>> put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)
>>> 
>>> You should put your manual on the official page if everything
>>> checks out :)
>>> 
>>>  https://www.gnu.org/manual/
>>>  webmasters@gnu.org
>>> 
>>> --
>>> underground experts united
>>> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
>>> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 

-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

Todays afternoon, Transifex team send me mail that says my subscription has
expired.( I will forward this mail personally)

2021年10月17日(日) 午後7:47 Jean-Christophe Helary <lists@traduction-libre.org>:

> Did you stop using Transifex ?
>
> As I mentionned earlier on Twitter, I'm using OmegaT (GPL/java) and the
> April (gitea) forge (April is a French association that promotes free
> software).
>
> https://forge.chapril.org/brandelune/documentation_emacs
>
> I have no official confirmation yet, but I proposed to make a short
> presentation about that project at the soon to come EmacsConf.
>
> Jean-Christophe
>
> > On Oct 17, 2021, at 19:23, Takesi Ayanokoji <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Just information.
> > Since this thread, I tried some CAT, but before I know, github's 3rd
> party
> > application GitLocalize became able to handle GNU gettext format fikes.
> >
> > My sample GitLocalize
> > (it requires github account and authorize the GitLocalize application.
> > though...).
> > https://gitlocalize.com/repo/6629
> >
> > And I create template repository based on my translating work for Emacs
> > Japanese manuals.
> > https://github.com/ayatakesi/template-translating-texinfo
> >
> > Jusi FYI.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > 2021年1月7日(木) 午前0:05 奔跑的小草 <467195537@qq.com>:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I wish I could see your project earlier，My current way is to use po4a 、
> >> gettext、 makeinfo、 omegaT together。
> >>
> >> It took me a long time to find this feasible way。
> >>
> >> Can you consider hosting the translation of the manual on an online CAT
> >> platform? like weblate or pootle, etc
> >>
> >> In this way, different languages can share a set of pot files.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I know I am not alone anymore.
> >>
> >> ------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
> >> *发件人:* "Takesi Ayanokoji" <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>;
> >> *发送时间:* 2021年1月6日(星期三) 晚上10:40
> >> *收件人:* "Emanuel Berg"<moasenwood@zoho.eu>;"help-gnu-emacs"<
> >> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>;
> >> *主题:* Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual
> >>
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> I translated  Emacs's user manual and elisp reference manual  since
> version
> >> 24.5.
> >>
> >> I am translating and updating manuals by po4a and GNU gettext(
> >> https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-doc-ja).
> >>
> >> This translating work have been came up with my personal RTF + Googling
> +
> >> try & error, because I did translating works alone.
> >>
> >> Currently I contacted Emacs user community in Japan, and hope
> translating
> >> and updating manuals continuously by project with user community.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> 2021年1月6日(水) 午後2:24 Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
> >> editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>:
> >>
> >>> Leo Liu wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> hi friends
> >>>>
> >>>> I am translating the Emac manual into Chinese and I have
> >>>> completed 10 chapters
> >>>>
> >>>> I want to know if the project has a unified translation
> >>>> platform or planAvoid duplication of work
> >>>
> >>> Good work, actually I never heard of Emacs manuals in other
> >>> languages. (At least the French should have a translated
> >>> emacs(1) man page, tho.)
> >>>
> >>> I guess the more manuals the better, however unlike Russian
> >>> hockey players that play 1.5 decade in the NHL without
> >>> learning English (not all Russian player are like that),
> >>> unlike them, you cannot really be a good programmer
> >>> without English.
> >>>
> >>> As for a platform, again never heard of, but I can see the
> >>> benefits, however as for avoiding duplication of work, as you
> >>> put it, I can almost reassure you that won't happen :)
> >>>
> >>> You should put your manual on the official page if everything
> >>> checks out :)
> >>>
> >>>  https://www.gnu.org/manual/
> >>>  webmasters@gnu.org
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> underground experts united
> >>> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
> >>> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
> --
> Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
> https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
> https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/
>
>

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Kevin Vigouroux via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

I cannot use the repository because my version of OmegaT (5.3.0) uses
the branch “master”. Wouldn’t it be easier to rename the “main” branch
to “master”?

P.S: I sent the mail to the wrong address the first time, sorry!
-- 
Best regards,
Kevin Vigouroux

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Kevin Vigouroux via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

I don’t plan to participate, but this is an opportunity to see how
someone can translate the documentation using OmegaT. Personally, I
would have liked to design a translation application to continue my
learning of Elisp. It would also allow me to improve my translation
skills.  I have some ideas that I haven’t been able to verify yet.

It sounds like a worthwile challenge: a potentially complex one but
a good opportunity.

P.S.: I bring it up in this thread because Emacs could potentially be
used like a translation platform.
-- 
Best regards,
Kevin Vigouroux

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Oct 18, 2021, at 23:25, Kevin Vigouroux via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> I don’t plan to participate, but this is an opportunity to see how
> someone can translate the documentation using OmegaT. Personally, I
> would have liked to design a translation application to continue my
> learning of Elisp. It would also allow me to improve my translation
> skills.  I have some ideas that I haven’t been able to verify yet.

Let me suggest to start with how po-mode works *for the translator* and add background features, like XLIFF support, etc.

-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/

Re: Is there a translation platform for the Emacs manual

[Kevin Vigouroux via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

In my project, the type of framework to build must have certain
properties. The po-mode is not one of them.

• features with a global scope
• features based on the Emacs user experience
• reuse of existing frameworks
• create a suitable workflow

In short, you should still have the feeling of using Emacs “as usual”
but with built-in translation features. For example, we could select any
text in a buffer and translate it directly using a special mode (e.g., a
transient keymap). Text properties could also be very useful to display
an analysis in-place (e.g. spell checkers highlight errors). The idea is
to make abstractions, provide a structure and guide the user during the
translation.
-- 
Best regards,
Kevin Vigouroux