From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: goncholden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:17:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1Qq0hFFvO9sxfxs3_9pMdP6KDhb1FPNvSMdecSbjkriiidHBUK22Q_ZjHRHRoG97PIW0jr0F4yq311wLGn2EO_sgCWceZJ9aM_7IhxpVpoM=@protonmail.com> <83wndoztbi.fsf@gnu.org> <83k09oz52i.fsf@gnu.org> <83h74sz4kh.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6ajzmza.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: goncholden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19425"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 11 10:19:29 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nzwLA-0004rk-LC for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:19:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48780 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzwL9-0007Xc-EI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 04:19:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzwJr-0007WA-9M for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 04:18:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]:60955) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzwJo-0004KQ-Fs; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 04:18:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1654935481; x=1655194681; bh=cBc28Hj6IUXSUB0uH1HgKMVgmcRkDoXedxEVc0EcU9g=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=wdvCfLLdgkjw8JnpoueKGAYhMpdkJYcyIovb1yJDQ+pvTh7ZFTB5Wrt1H+0jzMNro 13iagR2S2mJrsql5ObopaOeSjhPSE8cCdcLj0fbh/YrL7M1pOiktHZlebvTOz9ZM0g 7+80T8tv6b/z+Y2qeNB+A8fVFvhA7hNj+MHyAmO7hPicY7OTxOtfv4+SYkPGTWzQit pH2SBvHZIY7bWgo1b1TpGgvpJphyb0IVTCe6vykRG+SyKrh/fkx+x8IQr2+iwFZFMe 838TxG4WEwngyqHH2S77rT6vM+384b+JCgn+eejPczRWiUat9PULHKd1N1FZ98kEYF RtYIKtAU20w+Q== In-Reply-To: <83a6ajzmza.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 43053548:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.25; envelope-from=goncholden@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4325.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137675 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, June 11th, 2022 at 7:19 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:52:11 +0000 > > From: goncholden goncholden@protonmail.com > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > > > > > With "emacs -Q" I can only introduce a single tab. If a tab already= exists, the cursor goes to the start of the first character. > > > > > > That's the intended and correct behavior of TAB in > > > programming-language modes. What is the problem with it? > > > > It is a problem because the authors of the code used multiple tab inser= ts for indentation as well. > > > When you visit that Fortran file, look at the "Fortran" item in the > menu bar. Click Fortran->Customization->Fortran->Fortran Indent, and > > you will see a menu that allows you to customize many aspects of the > indentation of Fortran source files. > > Alternatively, type > > M-x customize-group RET fortran-indent RET > > and you will be presented with a buffer showing the customizable > options that control indentation in buffers under Fortran mode. > > By modifying these options to match the style used by the authors of > the files whcih you need to edit, you can resolve those issues once > and for all, such that typing TAB at the beginning of a line that is > already indented according to conventions will not change anything, > and indenting a new line you add will follow these conventions, like > using a literal TAB for each inner indentation level. All it takes is > to customize the indentation such that indentation levels are on > multiples of 8 columns, then indent-tabs-mode set to t will insert > literal TABs automatically. For example, there's an option that > customizes the indentation of the IF body, another option for DO body, > etc. > > > This rejects the use of emacs outright. > > > Such a confidence from someone who has yet so much to learn about > Emacs in general and indentation in particular... > > Given the state of your knowledge in the related areas of Emacs, may I > suggest some humility? Like asking a question instead of knee-jerking > a reaction that is not based on reality in any way? This could very > well result in more people answering your questions, and in your > learning what you need to learn much faster and more thoroughly. > Because helping someone with such an attitude is not a very satisfying > task. You have complicated the customisation tasks compared to all other language= s. This tab thing also happens with other languages such as C with multipl= e tabs. Have not really seen elisp code to do this. And for each supposedly soluti= on, a multitude other problems crop up. This is just so that I can modify = some files. The experience is that customisations and a big effort in them= selves. It has not been satisfying for me also, to end up with the huge nu= mber of customizable variables. Certainly the original developers could introduce such tabs without spendin= g a week trying to customise an editor. There is no need to be humble. I = treat everybody rough as I treat myself. Just seeing things the way they a= re.