From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joel James Adamson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:25:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317655564 19153 80.91.229.12 (3 Oct 2011 15:26:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:26:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org To: Le Wang Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 17:25:59 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkP1-0007NM-4B for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 17:25:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52232 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkOx-0004Nf-Dp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:25:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:53531) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkOo-0004NP-Du for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:25:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkOg-0005ti-8I for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:25:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:33893) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkOg-0005td-4x; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:25:38 -0400 Original-Received: by gya6 with SMTP id 6so4297454gya.0 for ; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 08:25:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=iwo8Otrz/NVCveIi+VOm3Lq1LzdDkp6Cm7gqFLo+DXo=; b=Pw/h2kPKGHP7uYw9Mwmzhh1xWJxo0jlwo+h3cyHvOFAsIv2+kUmq4HRU0VAaBH3mQD t+/VtplaKrPBoO44nmIjBuPaNZAml1fWfM4H53M3vWPV5Yv0WitGN2Rk2tE1256IHKxg AItawns2I5OrPsXorx4wlNmvB58ZFLO11l6oA= Original-Received: by 10.150.67.9 with SMTP id p9mr266568yba.169.1317655537372; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 08:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from chondestes.bio.unc.edu (chondestes.bio.unc.edu. [152.2.67.61]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm37459329anu.23.2011.10.03.08.25.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 03 Oct 2011 08:25:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Le Wang's message of "Sat, 1 Oct 2011 20:54:40 +0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.160.169 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82415 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le Wang writes: > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Joel James Adamson > wrote: >> I feel that maintaining the editor-unique nature of the Emacs delete >> key, rather than adopting the behavior of word processors is crucial to >> maintaining the uniqueness of Emacs. =C2=A0It's one of the reasons I use >> Emacs: the Emacs way makes sense in a way that I strongly prefer. =C2=A0I >> never liked the behavior of deleting whole selected regions and I prefer >> the Emacs way. > > I don't want to turn this into a huge debate, so this will be my last > reply to this that cc's the list. Sorry, I didn't realize that I'd sent my reply to every address, I only meant it to go to emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org. =20=20 > It's not editor-unique vs word-processor. It's editor-unique vs (web > browser + email editor + word processor + EVERYTHING). I see your point, and I know that there's more out there than just Emacs and Microsoft Word. My point was that I actually didn't like that behavior where I had encountered it most (Microsoft Word), and I was glad that Emacs was different. However, I can see how most people would just be surprised. I just never got why "Unix editors" (I used them mostly on Unix in those days) like Emacs seemed to make sense, whereas everything else seemed to enforce irrational behavior. I can't say why one thing made sense whereas the other didn't, but I'm sure someone's done a study on it. I also get your point about not being surprising: surely Emacs will hang on to more users if they are less surprised. However, we're not trying to take over the world here, are we? I mean that this is not necessarily about _how many_ users Emacs ultimately has. There may be other factors at play: I am not an Emacs Developer, but I would see the most important things as providing a well-functioning piece of free software[1]. The bottom-line for me is what you mentioned: as long as I can restore the default behavior of current versions with one Customize Option, then I think the change is fine. Joel Footnotes:=20 [1] http://trashbird1240.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/free-software-at-the-far= mers-market/ =2D-=20 Joel J. Adamson Servedio Lab -- University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill FSF Member #8164 -- http://www.fsf.org/jf?referrer=3D8164 http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAk6J0+0ACgkQp61eY7lvATLxKwD/feXPTeBL9iHC6AX65ilDM0il lqAPlu2msZlQ7w1w3uQBAJXww98MPFZUIiRv1MA6/aJGZ48zIUuv//TUprV/psvE =Vb5S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--