From: Lee Sau Dan <danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de>
Subject: Re: Chinese characters support
Date: 14 May 2003 08:14:14 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m3issey3tm.fsf@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mailman.6084.1052797097.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>>>>> "Charles" == Charles Muller <acmuller@gol.com> writes:
Charles> One more time:
Charles> Since the HELLO file is used for internal testing by
Charles> Emacs coders it almost always works correctly in any
Charles> recent Emacs "out of the box."
No. If you have problems with the font installation (esp. when none
of your font servers offer the relevant fonts or your sys. admin.
simply don't care about your non-English needs), HELLO won't display
the glyphs. It only display boxes there.
Charles> The common misunderstanding occurs when people who are
Charles> trying to get CJK working in utf-8 write to this, or
Charles> another list for help, and list members, in the spirit of
Charles> trying to be helpful, suggest that all is fine if the
Charles> HELLO file displays right.
For utf-8 testing, I'd refer someone to the test files in the MuleUCS
package.
Charles> Since the people who usually make the suggestion to test
Charles> via the HELLO are those who do not regularly use CJK, it
Charles> seems that they are not aware of this discrepancy, and I
Charles> wanted to point this out.
No. Those people often use CJK regularly. They just don't use utf-8.
Like me (using Big5), they use a national encoding (e.g. GB2312, JIS,
KSC).
Charles> It seems strange to see people react so emotionally to
Charles> the exposure of this simple point. No one is asking that
Charles> the hallowed HELLO file be sent to oblivion--although a
Charles> reincarnation as utf-8 would certainly not hurt! :-)
That WILL certainly HURT. Look carefully at the section "Difference
among chinese characters in GB, JIS, KSC, BIG5:" in HELLO. The same
thing cannot be reproduced in vanilla utf-8, because Unicode unifies
the various characters in these encoding into one single code point.
(Most efforts in the earlier versions of Unicode were devoted to
_unifying_ characters from different languages, employing different
national encodings. The result is that you can no longer tell where a
unified character is from Korean, Japanese and Chinese, who write them
in slightly different ways.)
If you want to test UTF-8 (Why not UTF-16? People who really use
computers for Far East languages (CJK) would have to waste 50% disk
space if they use UTF-8 to store their text files. UTF-16 is more
space efficient.), do suggest including a UTF-8 test file. (Add a
line in HELLO to instruct anyone how to open the UTF-8 test file,
favourably with hot-key bindings.) And why stop there? Also have
UTF-16 and UTF-7 test files. UTF-8 is simply NOT the magic panacea.
It sucks when you have a file full of Chinese characters, for
instance. The 3-byte per Chinese character "feature" of UTF-8 sucks.
HELLO should remain a test file for the internal encoding "emacs-mule"
and for displaying the true multilingual capabilities of Emacs. It
has also been serving well to test font installation. It should never
be recoded in utf-8, IMO. If all you care about is UTF-8, have
another test file. Assuming that all CJK users should use UTF-8 is
like assuming that everyone should fall faith to Vatican.
--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-05-14 6:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mailman.5730.1052348993.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-10 14:26 ` Chinese characters support Kai Großjohann
2003-05-10 16:17 ` Charles Muller
2003-05-10 16:45 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-10 17:31 ` Charles Muller
2003-05-10 18:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-05-11 2:11 ` Charles Muller
2003-05-11 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-05-11 13:59 ` Charles Muller
[not found] ` <mailman.5976.1052661651.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-12 19:29 ` Jason Rumney
2003-05-12 19:58 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-13 7:40 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-13 9:57 ` acmuller
2003-05-13 10:02 ` Robin Hu
2003-05-15 8:07 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-10 19:24 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-11 2:15 ` Charles Muller
2003-05-11 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.5956.1052619415.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-12 19:56 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-13 3:36 ` Charles Muller
2003-05-14 3:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.6084.1052797097.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-13 7:05 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-14 6:14 ` Lee Sau Dan [this message]
2003-05-14 16:27 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-14 21:07 ` Jason Rumney
[not found] ` <mailman.5927.1052587973.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-12 19:27 ` Jason Rumney
2003-05-13 7:40 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-13 10:11 ` acmuller
2003-05-13 10:54 ` Charles Muller
[not found] ` <mailman.6097.1052826249.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-15 8:07 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-10 17:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.5936.1052589798.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-13 7:40 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-14 3:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.6156.1052882447.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-15 8:07 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-16 11:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-05-12 23:05 ` Michael Na Li
2003-05-13 7:02 ` Kai Großjohann
[not found] ` <mailman.5922.1052583563.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-13 7:40 ` Lee Sau Dan
2003-05-07 23:08 Gaoyan Xie
2003-05-08 6:27 ` Charles Muller
[not found] ` <mailman.5739.1052375326.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-08 7:33 ` Robin Hu
2003-05-10 14:28 ` Kai Großjohann
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