From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lee Sau Dan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Chinese characters support Date: 13 May 2003 09:40:15 +0200 Organization: Rechenzentrum der Universitaet Freiburg, Germany Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <841xz6q3nc.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> <20030511.011725.71089640.acmuller@gol.com> <84he8292dt.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=cn-big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1052815660 18927 80.91.224.249 (13 May 2003 08:47:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:47:40 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 13 10:47:39 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19FVRj-0004v9-00 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:47:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19FVQi-0000R5-04 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:46:36 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news100.image.dk!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-freiburg.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 80 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: savona.informatik.uni-freiburg.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:113163 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:9656 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:9656 >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Muller writes: Charles> I know that, and I am not contesting that point. But Charles> again, the HELLO file is not a utf-8 file. I think you're being religious. Why must it be utf-8? Charles> It is also not a form of JIS or other East Asian Charles> encoding, It's emacs-mule encoding --- Emac's own representation of the information about characters/encodings that it keeps. Charles>so the fact that one can display multilingual Charles> scripts by opening that file does not mean that they will Charles> be able to display them in Big5, JIS, or whatever. If one can see the Big5 text in that file, he can see all other Big5 files. If one can see the Thai characters in that file, he can also see the Thai characters when he opens a Thai text file with the suitable encoding (the default if he has done set-language-environement correctly). And so on. Charles> People who recommend checking this file are usually Charles> people who don't use double-byte East Asian languages. Sorry, I use Big5 very often. And I do recommend C-h h as a quick test to see if he has installed the big5 fonts correctly. (Big5 fonts do not come with XFree86, and many Linux distros has been ignoring the "leim" and "intlfont" packages for years.) >> The file is in a relevant encoding: it's the encoding used by >> Emacs internally. (Or rather, an encoding close to the >> internal encoding.) Charles> Relevant to whom? To Emacs. Charles> It's not in utf-8, right? So what? My .signature is in Big5 and it is not in utf-8, either. And my .emacs file is in emacs-mule encoding, which is not utf-8, either. Neither are utf-16 files utf-8. I think you're being religious when you worship utf-8. For Chinese text, utf-8 wastes 50% of storage space. I'd rather use utf-16. But big5 has the same storage efficiency (and more when you include some English text) and it is more common. Charles> No one that I know who works in XML or with East Asian Charles> international scripts works in utf-7, And for XML in Chinese, utf-8 wastes lots of space. To be practical, we often use big5 for XML files with Chinese. Charles> so while that encoding format may be relevant for those Charles> who are programming Emacs internally, it is not relevant Charles> for anyone using Emacs to do multilingual XML or HTML Charles> publication, because no one uses it. That's what I mean Charles> when I say "not relevant." My experience with Emac's utf-8 <--> internal conversion has been good. -- Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee