From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joel James Adamson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:17:06 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317413637 24562 80.91.229.12 (30 Sep 2011 20:13:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 20:13:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 30 22:13:53 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9jSy-0007EW-Iu for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 22:13:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60345 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R9jSx-0001yA-J4 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:13:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39939) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R9epr-0002mx-Do for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:17:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R9epq-00038l-6R for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:17:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.213.41]:37252) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R9epq-00038h-3z; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:17:10 -0400 Original-Received: by ywe9 with SMTP id 9so1938433ywe.0 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:17:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=LHSKy3YXTdc0kkPL18SWUJuzA7SF9kK5R6/BmW17AAo=; b=EUDv0QtdDChd3PvlZ9LojCfvSq5R3UtkbooqaYehW/M8vJ19xbfPvWBIuCi41MpJmA XxUBWbNRKE1f5q7cU7MbsPSN/Ybn1OG/nlLih+j00VPA6sHaYjlPvDftTZ/a9+2T+TO5 5BxRt3JOllheH3xQauCEuEdgp242MbssUCTG0= Original-Received: by 10.150.69.26 with SMTP id r26mr8694506yba.322.1317395828650; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from chondestes.bio.unc.edu (chondestes.bio.unc.edu. [152.2.67.61]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm14650499anu.23.2011.09.30.08.17.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:17:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 29 Sep 2011 23:42:50 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.213.41 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:13:45 -0400 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82389 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Stallman writes: > Here are the questions we hope you will answer: > > * Are you in favor of this change? No > * Are you opposed to this change? Yes > * How strongly do you feel about the matter? I feel that maintaining the editor-unique nature of the Emacs delete key, rather than adopting the behavior of word processors is crucial to maintaining the uniqueness of Emacs. It's one of the reasons I use Emacs: the Emacs way makes sense in a way that I strongly prefer. I never liked the behavior of deleting whole selected regions and I prefer the Emacs way. > We don't want to just "count votes" -- we want to understand > how this affects users. So if you care about the issue, > please tell us how the change affects your editing. > > * What are the cases where you find it helps? I don't really know of any. > * What are the cases where you find it hurts? If I want to delete a large block of text, I want to either drag the mouse and use mouse-3, or use C-w. I don't see how it helps to replace this behavior with something that emphasizes the region only as something to be deleted.=20=20 > * What is your level of Emacs experience? I've been using Emacs daily for six years, and Unix editors before that for over twelve years. I do all my major computer interaction from within Emacs, with the exception of web browsing. > A further change in the same area has been suggested: when there is an > active region, a self-inserting character would delete the region > before the character is inserted by default. > > * What would you think of this further change? I don't like this idea. My hand could slip and a whole region would disappear. I might have been planning to do something else with it. Feel free to contact me for further discussion. Basically my opinion boils down to feeling that the way of text editors should be kept in line with its historical roots. If there is some known advantage to adopting CUA behavior, then I don't know it myself. Another huge advantage of Emacs for me was that from years of experience with Unix editors, I already knew many of the Emacs commands, and the behavior you're proposing to change was one of them. Thanks, Joel =2D-=20 Joel J. Adamson Servedio Lab -- University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill FSF Member #8164 -- http://www.fsf.org/jf?referrer=3D8164 http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAk6F3XIACgkQp61eY7lvATKfhwD/dY3Qc+B5nB0Phgxmaaoro/AS uTHWn1MbYtovNrgKnq4A/iLC58cBOzESTLs4gqZOYr6NVDctmo0fRDfdsr2rOAB5 =Z2ir -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--