From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Helmut Eller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Issues with emacs Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:45:16 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> <83086e1d-d66a-4e0c-95a7-92d10a6de7e7@f8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340610617 5941 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2012 07:50:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:50:17 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 25 09:50:17 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj43s-0006aw-Lu for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:50:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58586 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj43p-0002rE-5e for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:50:13 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!uio.no!border2.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.kpnqwest.it!news.kpnqwest.it.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:45:17 -0500 Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:zzteaKfxcjxI2tdC3QxqhdrooYw= Original-Lines: 22 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.46.190.172 Original-X-Trace: sv3-eFNrPz1YX3ksxIusLbEOFbXiiztTlL2q+i5wKhoIdozSibjiWKlLE+DdvQEwJuoFxHK1q3Nf8mvZl0e!uXi3ZMOf6qkRn8Q9tcgNOHjK36MtmOhcic5uCeAtP4kptiQLjHuYbtkxZT9/VaY= X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 2478 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:193053 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85448 Archived-At: * rusi [2012-06-25 05:51] writes: > I believe that one of the biggest obstacles to widespread emacs > adoption is (e)lisp. > Unfortunately at this point the discussion invariably degenerates into > a bad miscombination of technical and sociological framing. > > If the issue is technical, then encouraging development is out-of- > bounds > If the issue is social -- how to get today's kids interested in emacs > -- and I start with the slogan LEARN ELISP -- I need to go to > marketing kindergarten I have my doubts that "kids" will make a better Emacs. IMO good programs are usually built by experienced and skilled developers. I don't think that it's accident that RMS wrote Emacs and GCC. To make a better Emacs, we would need highly skilled (and probably well paid) people. This is probably also the reason why Eclipse is successful: IBM essentially killed the Smalltalk division for Eclipse. Those people already knew what is needed for a good IDE before they came to Eclipse. Helmut