show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hello!

We're tentatively planning to make this the default in Emacs 28.

Users are encouraged to give it a try and tell us now if
they see a reason to change that plan.

Please either reply to this message, or direct your responses to 
emacs-devel@gnu.org.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Óscar Fuentes]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> We're tentatively planning to make this the default in Emacs 28.
>
> Users are encouraged to give it a try and tell us now if
> they see a reason to change that plan.

I'm giving it a try since 16 years ago.

I see no reason for changing the plan.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Dmitry Gutov wrote:

> We're tentatively planning to make this the default in Emacs 28.
>
> Users are encouraged to give it a try and tell us now if
> they see a reason to change that plan.

Nope, good idea, had it enabled for ages and always thought it
was useful and cool.

(require 'paren)
(show-paren-mode)
(setq show-paren-delay 0)

Then set faces

show-paren-match
show-paren-mismatch

:)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Y. E.]

Hello,

- My configured email client is Rmail.
- Gnus is configured to retrieve mailing lists articles from news.gmane.io.

How do I reply to a mailing list "article" retrieved from news.gmane.io
with Gnus?

I tried the commands listed here:
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Summary-Mail-Commands.html

Specifically, `S L' and `S W' seemed to be appropriate ones.
But on each attempt it seems to me only 4 headers are filled, such as:

To: help-gnu-emacs...
Subject: Re: auto-filled subject...
From: my from address
Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2021-09

I see no Message-ID (or In-Reply-To) auto-filled, isn't it required?


*** Extra: Rmail
I also attempted to reply by loading mbox file to Rmail and replying to all
from it. In-Reply-To header was auto-filled in this case, I sent the message,
but it didn't seem to reach the destination.

Any advice?

Thank you.

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Bird]

"Y. E." <yet@ego.team> writes:

> Hello,
Hi,

> - My configured email client is Rmail.
> - Gnus is configured to retrieve mailing lists articles from news.gmane.io.
>
> How do I reply to a mailing list "article" retrieved from news.gmane.io
> with Gnus?
>
> I tried the commands listed here:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Summary-Mail-Commands.html
>
> Specifically, `S L' and `S W' seemed to be appropriate ones.
> But on each attempt it seems to me only 4 headers are filled, such as:
>
> To: help-gnu-emacs...
> Subject: Re: auto-filled subject...
> From: my from address
> Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2021-09
>
> I see no Message-ID (or In-Reply-To) auto-filled, isn't it required?
(Take this as a test example)

Message-ID is generated automatically.
If you press C-c C-o (message-sort-headers), you should see some extra
information.
For gmane specifically, you can add these lines to init.el so pressing F
and f will send to the correct place.

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(setq gnus-mailing-list-groups
            (rx bol (opt "nntp" (1+ nonl) ":") (or "gmane."
                                                   "linux."
                                                   "mozilla.")))
#+end_src

(this was suggested by someone on either gmane.emacs.gnus.general or gmane.emacs.gnus.user)

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Y. E.]

> If you press C-c C-o (message-sort-headers), you should see some extra
> information.

Thank you. I searched for "toggle" so didn't find the command myself.
Yes, `C-c C-o' showed `References' header[1] was auto-added too.

> For gmane specifically, you can add these lines to init.el so pressing F
> and f will send to the correct place.

> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> (setq gnus-mailing-list-groups
>             (rx bol (opt "nntp" (1+ nonl) ":") (or "gmane."
>                                                    "linux."
>                                                    "mozilla.")))
> #+end_src

Thanks again, I'll experiment more with this information.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mail-Headers.html

Best,
YE

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

> Message-ID is generated automatically.
> If you press C-c C-o (message-sort-headers), you should see some extra
> information.
> For gmane specifically, you can add these lines to init.el so pressing F
> and f will send to the correct place.
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> (setq gnus-mailing-list-groups
>             (rx bol (opt "nntp" (1+ nonl) ":") (or "gmane."
>                                                    "linux."
>                                                    "mozilla.")))
> #+end_src
>
> (this was suggested by someone on either gmane.emacs.gnus.general or gmane.emacs.gnus.user)

Hi Bird,

Eventually I set `gnus-mailing-list-groups' to "^gmane" (which should be
enough for my setup), so this is the first email I'm sending with the
auto-filled by Gnus headers.

Have a nice day!
YE

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

This is an attempt to fix the From header, which contains auto-added
"via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor" part when delivered.

Before sending this message 'gnus-post-method' was set to 'native'.

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Bird]

Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> This is an attempt to fix the From header, which contains auto-added
> "via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor" part when delivered.
>
> Before sending this message 'gnus-post-method' was set to 'native'.
Hello, Y. E.

I suspect the reason for "Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>" is because you're not subscribed to
this mailing list. (i suspect) Only subscribed members are able to post
here directly while un-subscribed people's messages are moderated
(currently by dimitry is my guess).

But, your previous message did reach to me from your address correctly
so it's all good  \o/
-- 
Fortune:
The reason they're called wisdom teeth is that the experience makes you wise.

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Bird <birdsite@airmail.cc>
> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:03:53 +0000
> Cc: "Y. E." <yet@ego.team>
> 
> I suspect the reason for "Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
> editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>" is because you're not subscribed to
> this mailing list.

No, it's unrelated to being subscribed.

But discussing this is really off-topic on this list, so please let's
not.

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Bird]

Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> Before sending this message 'gnus-post-method' was set to 'native'.
from the manual (info "(gnus) Posting Server") ,
        Finally, if you want to always post using the native select method,
        you can set this variable to ‘native’.

But your native select method is gmane as indicated by the message
before this one. So this will try to send it using gmane, i
guess. However, i do not know much about this territory and someone else
might help you. My suggestion is to wait about a week and if you still
don't find an answer to this, try sending a cross-posted mail in
gmane.emacs.gnus.{general,user} and gmane.discuss

(in this message, the X-Draft-From header was removed)
I haven't changed much in gnus and it works so...
My ~/.gnus.el roughly looks like this:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.io")
	gnus-secondary-select-methods
	'((nnmaildir "bird"
		     (directory "~/Mail")
		     (gnus-search-engine gnus-search-notmuch))))
  ;; don't use .newsrc files
  (setq gnus-save-newsrc-file nil
	gnus-read-newsrc-file nil)
  ;; do we care about new groups in server?
  (setq gnus-save-killed-list nil
	gnus-check-new-newsgroups 'ask-server)
  ;; posting styles
  (setq gnus-posting-styles
	'((".*"
	   (name "Bird")
	   (address "birdsite@airmail.cc")
	   (signature (concat "Fortune:\n" (shell-command-to-string "fortune"))))))
  ;; sending mail
  (setq mail-user-agent 'message-user-agent)
  (setq mail-specify-envelope-from t
	sendmail-program "/bin/msmtp"
	mail-envelope-from 'header
	message-sendmail-envelope-from 'header
	message-send-mail-function 'message-send-mail-with-sendmail)

  ;; sorting groups by use  (info "(gnus) Group Score")
  ;; this actually dosen't work for some reason :(
  (add-hook 'gnus-summary-exit-hook #'gnus-summary-bubble-group)
  ;; treat mail-to-nntp groups as mailing list
  (setq gnus-mailing-list-groups
	(rx bol (opt "nntp" (1+ nonl) ":") (or "gmane."
					       "linux."
					       "mozilla.")))
  (setq gnus-summary-next-group-on-exit nil)

#+end_src

-- 
Fortune:
"No, `Eureka' is Greek for `This bath is too hot.'"
		-- Dr. Who

Re: How to reply to a mailing list retrieved via Gnus gmane?

[Y. E. via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

I appreciate your help, Bird, and hopefully will figure it out sooner or
later.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Y. E.]

> had it enabled for ages and always thought it
> was useful and cool.
>
> (require 'paren)
> (show-paren-mode)
> (setq show-paren-delay 0)
>
> Then set faces
>
> show-paren-match
> show-paren-mismatch
>

Same here.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Pankaj Jangid]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> We're tentatively planning to make this the default in Emacs 28.

Make this permanent, please. I am using it since many ages.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Bird]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Hello!
>
> We're tentatively planning to make this the default in Emacs 28.
>
> Users are encouraged to give it a try and tell us now if
> they see a reason to change that plan.
>
> Please either reply to this message, or direct your responses to
> emacs-devel@gnu.org.
>
>

Hello,

I think show-paren-mode will be a good thing to turn on by default.

However, if there is some way to use it's functionality buffer-locally
(maybe by some other means rather than show-paren-mode itself), that
should probably be used.

show-paren-mode also highlights on text-mode, fundamental-mode and other
modes which should probably not be done.

However, i think it's a good thing for the defaults to have it enabled.

Thanks.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Bird]

Bird <birdsite@airmail.cc> writes:

> However, if there is some way to use it's functionality buffer-locally
> (maybe by some other means rather than show-paren-mode itself), that
> should probably be used.
>
> show-paren-mode also highlights on text-mode, fundamental-mode and other
> modes which should probably not be done.

So, i think the above shouldn't be a problem. Please ignore the quoted
lines.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 10.09.2021 19:13, Bird wrote:
> Bird<birdsite@airmail.cc>  writes:
> 
>> However, if there is some way to use it's functionality buffer-locally
>> (maybe by some other means rather than show-paren-mode itself), that
>> should probably be used.
>>
>> show-paren-mode also highlights on text-mode, fundamental-mode and other
>> modes which should probably not be done.
> So, i think the above shouldn't be a problem. Please ignore the quoted
> lines.

Very good. But yeah, there are some varied opinions on whether 
show-paren-mode is good for non-coding buffers.

I've just added show-paren-local-mode to the master branch, so people 
will be able to turn it on/off selectively, if they choose to.

Re: show-paren-mode considered for enabling it by default

[Tim Landscheidt]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:

> We're tentatively planning to make this the default in Emacs 28.

> Users are encouraged to give it a try and tell us now if
> they see a reason to change that plan.

> Please either reply to this message, or direct your
> responses to emacs-devel@gnu.org.

I find show-paren-mode useful in buffers where parentheses
are used as intended, i. e. in programs or natural language
texts without smilies, but rather distracting in Gnus buff-
ers where "[]" and "()" are just used as graphical elements.
Similarly, in newsticker "(123)" is used for the number of
unread messages where there is never (?) a need to remind
the user where the parentheses end, but the flashing is con-
fusing.

None of those are unsolvable problems, but it would be nice
if Emacs as shipped could disable show-paren-mode in those
cases so the user does not have to.

Tim