From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Matt Lundin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Moving from Thunderbird to Emacs for mail and calendar Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:17:09 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20091013.171317.107723653.jeff@chaosphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1255457900 10127 80.91.229.12 (13 Oct 2009 18:18:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:18:20 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 13 20:18:10 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Mxlwm-000342-K4 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:18:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50436 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mxlwm-0007qP-19 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:18:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MxlwO-0007mc-0z for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MxlwJ-0007dT-66 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:17:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58814 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MxlwJ-0007dQ-0L for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:17:39 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:57214) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MxlwI-000656-FC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:17:38 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1MxlwG-0002np-JE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:17:36 +0200 Original-Received: from adsl-99-190-83-133.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net ([99.190.83.133]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:17:36 +0200 Original-Received: from mdl by adsl-99-190-83-133.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:17:36 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 62 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-99-190-83-133.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:rENzrIraC9IsreQPVmBtOKxjBLA= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:68922 Archived-At: Jeff Clough writes: > I'm pretty sure you've decided this is a religious issue at this > point, so it's unlikely I'm going to pursue the conversation beyond > this message. You like Gnus, I don't. Fair enough. All I will say in response is that Richard's posts have been a model of politeness and restraint. >>> It's not wrong to compare what I know about Gnus to what I know >>> about Mew. >> >> That is true Jeff. But you didn't do that. You said you never got >> Gnus working. Which is a different thing. I think its hard to be >> objective about a MUA if you didn't actually use it as one. Or am I >> mistaken in your meaning? > > My answer to this was (and is) below. > >>> >>> Where the Gnus documentation exists, it's awful. This is in direct >>> contrast of Mew, where I was able to look at one page of text, follow >>> a handful of steps and have a working MUA in less than an hour. I believe that all Richard was saying is that this is a subjective judgment. As a point of comparison, when I tried setting up an emacs email client a year ago, I spent a couple of days trying to get Mew to work, whereas I had Gnus accessing my IMAP folders in just a few minutes. But I would by no means conclude from this experience that Mew is not a superb email client. It would be much safer to attribute the problems to my own misunderstanding and/or shortcomings. > How many hours of frustration should a user be expected to endure in > order to run a piece of software to solve the problem of reading > email? Mind you, I'm not talking about hours spent learning how to > *use* the software, I'm talking about hours spent just getting it to > work *at all*. I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. It was not mine. But instead of simply dismissing Gnus, it would be helpful if you offered specifics. What in particular was difficult? Getting the mail? Reading the mail? >> In short my email set up talks to an impa server, drags all emails >> in, splits them into different folders, I then use different smtp >> servers for sending depending on the posting style employed by that >> particular group. It all works very, very fast, efficiently and >> reliably with excellent customisation facilities. No. It's not >> "crap". > > So Gnus isn't crap as a *client* because you can do everything you > want by running multiple *servers*!?! I'm sorry, but in my world > "become a sysadmin for a handful of servers" is in no way a reasonable > solution to "i'd like to read my email now". I don't think Richard was talking about running his own servers here (though you can do that if you want, of course). Rather, he's simply saying that Gnus can relay mail via different smtp servers depending on what group one is in. - Matt