From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Steuber Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: GNU.org is down Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:43:43 GMT Organization: Nerds for universal gun ownership Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87oeuht8d8.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1071528486 22468 80.91.224.253 (15 Dec 2003 22:48:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:48:06 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 15 23:48:02 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AW1VS-0002dU-00 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:48:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AW2QI-00044X-4P for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:46:46 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!d7fde121!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help X-Lisp-Expression: (do ((a 1 b) (b 1 (+ a b))) (nil a) (print a)) X-AYB: All your base are belong to us X-Authority: Question Authority Original-Lines: 51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.197.92.135 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net Original-X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1071528223 151.197.92.135 (Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:43:43 EST) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:43:43 EST Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:119354 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:15293 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:15293 Bob Nelson writes: > David Steuber wrote: > > David Kastrup writes: > > >> What kind of people gleefully cause a considerable permanent damage to > >> a charity instead of elsewhere "just" for the hope of monetary gains? > >> I hope that they are found and dealt with in proportion to their > >> crime and the impact it will have. > > > The kind of people who deserve a disproportionately harsh punishment. > > That type of attitude does not imply one of tolerance and understanding. > It conveys an absolutist view of ``good'' and ``evil'' and ``right'' and > ``wrong''. OK, so I'm intolerant. Suppose instead of breaking into a server and doing who knows how much damage that people then have to spend valuable time fixing, the miscreant instead took a sledgehammer to the windshield of your car. Would you not want at least compensation for the damages and time to repair them? > Rather than seek ``harsh punishment'' for those involved, it's more > constructive to become aware of the motivation that led to the deed. > Perhaps GNU needs to better covey its ideals. I'm not sure I see this as constructive. Suppose, hypothetically, that the GNU and Debian servers were broken into by people politically opposed to the GPL and Free software. Understanding their motives will not prevent them from doing so again. For certain types of people retribution is the better course of action. Not everyone out there will listen to reason and admit that what they did was not acceptable social behavior and undertake never to do that sort of thing again. Some people only understand force. Also, it is possible that there are absolutes like 'good', 'evil', 'right', and 'wrong'. Laws are often based on those concepts. If the general case of destruction of another person's property is not wrong, then what is? This is all off topic at this point, so I won't say anything further here. -- One Emacs to rule them all. One Emacs to find them, One Emacs to take commands and to the keystrokes bind them, All other programming languages wish they were Lisp.