Mail posting in newsgroups

Mail posting in newsgroups

[N. Raghavendra]

I read the mailing lists I am subscribed to as newsgroups through Gmane.
Lately, I've been having problems with posting through Gmane --- posts
don't reach the mailing list for several hours, first postings to a list
don't trigger an auto-authorization message from Gmane, etc.

So, I am wondering if it is possible to post articles and followups in
Gmane newsgroups by email.  For example, if I am in the summary buffer
of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group, and hit `a', I'd like Gnus to start
composing a mail message to emacs-orgmode@gnu.org.  Similarly, if I am
in the summary buffer of that group and hit "F", I'd like Gnus to start
composing a *mail* reply to the selected article, with
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org as the "To" address.  Is there a way to do this?

I was reading about group parameters in the manual.  Will setting
to-address and to-list parameters of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group to
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org do what I've described above?  Unfortunately, I
can't test it without spamming the mailing list with test messages.

Thanks,
Raghu.

-- 
N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>, http://www.retrotexts.net/
Harish-Chandra Research Institute, http://www.hri.res.in/

Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[N. Raghavendra]

I read the mailing lists I am subscribed to as newsgroups through Gmane.
Lately, I've been having problems with posting through Gmane --- posts
don't reach the mailing list for several hours, first postings to a list
don't trigger an auto-authorization message from Gmane, etc.

So, I am wondering if it is possible to post articles and followups in
Gmane newsgroups by email.  For example, if I am in the summary buffer
of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group, and hit `a', I'd like Gnus to start
composing a mail message to emacs-orgmode@gnu.org.  Similarly, if I am
in the summary buffer of that group and hit "F", I'd like Gnus to start
composing a *mail* reply to the selected article, with
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org as the "To" address.  Is there a way to do this?

I was reading about group parameters in the manual.  Will setting
to-address and to-list parameters of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group to
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org do what I've described above?  Unfortunately, I
can't test it without spamming the mailing list with test messages.

Thanks,
Raghu.

PS: My apologies if you get multiple copies of this message.  I tried
sending it through Gmane earlier.

-- 
N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>, http://www.retrotexts.net/
Harish-Chandra Research Institute, http://www.hri.res.in/

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Bob Proulx]

N. Raghavendra wrote:
> I read the mailing lists I am subscribed to as newsgroups through Gmane.

Many people do.  All good and okay.

> Lately, I've been having problems with posting through Gmane --- posts
> don't reach the mailing list for several hours, first postings to a list
> don't trigger an auto-authorization message from Gmane, etc.

I just want to say here that mail isn't instant messenger or IRC.  It
is a store and forward protocol.  We are so used to mail being
delivered very quickly, almost immediately, that when it isn't
immediate we think something is wrong.  But most of the time
everything is working as designed.  The mail will queue and then retry
and send later.  Plus often the delay is in the lists.gnu.org mail
queue and there isn't anything we can do about that.

Also no gnu.org mailing list should send automatic responses.  Because
anyone can mail anything with any return address to a mailing list.
Spammers use that to create "backscatter spam" where either the
message is bounced back to the target vicitim or the target victim is
hit with endless autoreplies from everywhere in a denial of service
attack.  Having autoreplies enabled previously has landed
lists.gnu.org onto the DNSBLs as a bad citizen previously.  Therefore
autoreplies are not allowed.

Also one need not be subscribed in order to post.  GNU mailing lists
are mostly either for bug reports or for getting help such as this
list.  Forcing people to subscribe in order to post a bug report is
too restrictive.  Therefore like most free libre community mailing
lists our lists are open to non-subscribers.  However this means that
we hold all new posters for moderation.  This applies to both
subscribers and non-subscribers alike.  Otherwise there would be too
much spam.

These requirements mean that there is a delay upon initial contact.
But hopefully the subscribers here are happy with the hopefully very
low level of spam to the mailing lists due to these actions.

Your address is both whitelisted and subscribed.  Therefore you have
both posted and have subscribed.  There will be no moderation of your
messages unless you change your address.

> So, I am wondering if it is possible to post articles and followups in
> Gmane newsgroups by email.

Yes.  It is just email.  However the technicalities you ask about with
gnus are beyond me as I do not know very much about it.

> For example, if I am in the summary buffer of the
> gmane.emacs.orgmode group, and hit `a', I'd like Gnus to start
> composing a mail message to emacs-orgmode@gnu.org.  Similarly, if I
> am in the summary buffer of that group and hit "F", I'd like Gnus to
> start composing a *mail* reply to the selected article, with
> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org as the "To" address.  Is there a way to do
> this?

I do not know the answer to your question and leave this to others to
answer.

> I was reading about group parameters in the manual.  Will setting
> to-address and to-list parameters of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group to
> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org do what I've described above?  Unfortunately, I
> can't test it without spamming the mailing list with test messages.

In theory this is just email, simply needs the In-Reply-To: and
References: set correctly, and that is all.  However I don't know
about the details of the interface you are asking about.  Actually
getting that working might be difficult.  What you are asking about is
normal if one subscribes to the mailing list and replies to the
messages using mail (or gnus) normally.

> PS: My apologies if you get multiple copies of this message.  I tried
> sending it through Gmane earlier.

Both came through.

Bob

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Jude DaShiell]

The internet standard for email message delivery is to try for 240 hours 
or 10 days whichever comes first then return delivery error report to 
the sender if delivery has failed in those 240 hours or 10 days.  It was 
designed that way since the internet's original purpose was to survive a 
nuclear attack.

On Fri, 13 May 2016, Bob Proulx wrote:

> Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 20:55:18
> From: Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com>
> To: N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus
> 
> N. Raghavendra wrote:
>> I read the mailing lists I am subscribed to as newsgroups through Gmane.
>
> Many people do.  All good and okay.
>
>> Lately, I've been having problems with posting through Gmane --- posts
>> don't reach the mailing list for several hours, first postings to a list
>> don't trigger an auto-authorization message from Gmane, etc.
>
> I just want to say here that mail isn't instant messenger or IRC.  It
> is a store and forward protocol.  We are so used to mail being
> delivered very quickly, almost immediately, that when it isn't
> immediate we think something is wrong.  But most of the time
> everything is working as designed.  The mail will queue and then retry
> and send later.  Plus often the delay is in the lists.gnu.org mail
> queue and there isn't anything we can do about that.
>
> Also no gnu.org mailing list should send automatic responses.  Because
> anyone can mail anything with any return address to a mailing list.
> Spammers use that to create "backscatter spam" where either the
> message is bounced back to the target vicitim or the target victim is
> hit with endless autoreplies from everywhere in a denial of service
> attack.  Having autoreplies enabled previously has landed
> lists.gnu.org onto the DNSBLs as a bad citizen previously.  Therefore
> autoreplies are not allowed.
>
> Also one need not be subscribed in order to post.  GNU mailing lists
> are mostly either for bug reports or for getting help such as this
> list.  Forcing people to subscribe in order to post a bug report is
> too restrictive.  Therefore like most free libre community mailing
> lists our lists are open to non-subscribers.  However this means that
> we hold all new posters for moderation.  This applies to both
> subscribers and non-subscribers alike.  Otherwise there would be too
> much spam.
>
> These requirements mean that there is a delay upon initial contact.
> But hopefully the subscribers here are happy with the hopefully very
> low level of spam to the mailing lists due to these actions.
>
> Your address is both whitelisted and subscribed.  Therefore you have
> both posted and have subscribed.  There will be no moderation of your
> messages unless you change your address.
>
>> So, I am wondering if it is possible to post articles and followups in
>> Gmane newsgroups by email.
>
> Yes.  It is just email.  However the technicalities you ask about with
> gnus are beyond me as I do not know very much about it.
>
>> For example, if I am in the summary buffer of the
>> gmane.emacs.orgmode group, and hit `a', I'd like Gnus to start
>> composing a mail message to emacs-orgmode@gnu.org.  Similarly, if I
>> am in the summary buffer of that group and hit "F", I'd like Gnus to
>> start composing a *mail* reply to the selected article, with
>> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org as the "To" address.  Is there a way to do
>> this?
>
> I do not know the answer to your question and leave this to others to
> answer.
>
>> I was reading about group parameters in the manual.  Will setting
>> to-address and to-list parameters of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group to
>> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org do what I've described above?  Unfortunately, I
>> can't test it without spamming the mailing list with test messages.
>
> In theory this is just email, simply needs the In-Reply-To: and
> References: set correctly, and that is all.  However I don't know
> about the details of the interface you are asking about.  Actually
> getting that working might be difficult.  What you are asking about is
> normal if one subscribes to the mailing list and replies to the
> messages using mail (or gnus) normally.
>
>> PS: My apologies if you get multiple copies of this message.  I tried
>> sending it through Gmane earlier.
>
> Both came through.
>
> Bob
>
>

-- 

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Emanuel Berg]

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:

> The internet standard for email message delivery is
> to try for 240 hours or 10 days whichever comes
> first

Interesting... O.o?

Anyway, so this is here, as well!

Now this has been brought up here, on
gmane.emacs.gnus.user, on gmane.discuss, and CC'd to
the Gnus and Gmane maintainer, so if it doesn't get
fixed, so be it!

But regardless of whatever, there seems to be
a problem with Gmane - two of my messages to
gmane.emacs.gnus.user haven't appeared, one of which
was sent several days ago, and when I just now posted
to gmane.discuss and gmane.test, my first posts to
them groups, I didn't have to verify, which is the
normal procedure (unless there are special rules for
those groups, of course).

I suppose he, who lives, will see!

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 29 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Emanuel Berg]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> I just want to say here that mail isn't instant
> messenger or IRC.

Thank God it is much better!

> Having autoreplies enabled previously has landed
> lists.gnu.org onto the DNSBLs as a bad citizen
> previously. Therefore autoreplies are not allowed.

Indeed :$

Apart from that security issue, autoreplies are often
an annoyance, typically carrying a huge bulk of text
with tons of mail addresses you should only use, if
you want even more autoreplied blah blah in
your mailbox!

> Also one need not be subscribed in order to post.
> GNU mailing lists are mostly either for bug reports
> or for getting help such as this list.

Mailing lists today could in theory also carry
a culture, like a pleasant place where you can be
active with technology, like the BBSs of the
telephone/early modem age, and the newsgroups of the
Usenet/UUCP age... Despite persistent efforts not the
least from Yours Truly in this endeavor, it is 50/50
if such a culture actually exists :_(

> Forcing people to subscribe in order to post a bug
> report is too restrictive. Therefore like most free
> libre community mailing lists our lists are open to
> non-subscribers.

It is too restrictive but it is not uncommon for
people even with advanced technology to not have
a decent mailing list, demand subscription, and/or
otherwise restrict Gmane access. Examples are the
gnuplot and GMT people (Generic Mapping Tools) - the
GMT are the worst, as they don't even have a mailing
list, but instead refer to a web forum! Which, on the
other hand, is alive and I got good help immediately.
But anyway!

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 29 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[N. Raghavendra]

At 2016-05-13T18:55:18-06:00, Bob Proulx wrote:

> Your address is both whitelisted and subscribed.  Therefore you have
> both posted and have subscribed.  There will be no moderation of your
> messages unless you change your address.

Thanks for the clarification.  I have now created a Gmail account for
reading mailing lists, and have subscribed it to this list.  I am
posting this message from there.

> In theory this is just email, simply needs the In-Reply-To: and
> References: set correctly, and that is all.

Since I have now moved from Gmane to Gmail, and have configured Gnus to
read and post from the Gmail account, things should be alright.

Cheers,
Raghu.

-- 
N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>, http://www.retrotexts.net/
Harish-Chandra Research Institute, http://www.hri.res.in/

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 23:06:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> The internet standard for email message delivery is to try for 240 hours 
> or 10 days whichever comes first then return delivery error report to 
> the sender if delivery has failed in those 240 hours or 10 days.  It was 
> designed that way since the internet's original purpose was to survive a 
> nuclear attack.

I never saw such long timeouts.  I generally get a soft error message
after 1 hour, and a "hard" delivery failure after 2 hours.

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> Plus often the delay is in the lists.gnu.org mail queue and there
> isn't anything we can do about that.

The gnu.org SMTP servers have been timing out on incoming mail for some
people the last couple of days, whether you're posting through Gmane or
not.  But some seem to make it through, for some reason...

Or perhaps it's just email from Norway?  I wonder whether this one make
it through...  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 11:38:53 +0200
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:
> 
> > Plus often the delay is in the lists.gnu.org mail queue and there
> > isn't anything we can do about that.
> 
> The gnu.org SMTP servers have been timing out on incoming mail for some
> people the last couple of days, whether you're posting through Gmane or
> not.  But some seem to make it through, for some reason...
> 
> Or perhaps it's just email from Norway?  I wonder whether this one make
> it through...  

gnu.org machines have connectivity problems lately.  I hope they will
be resolved soon.

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[N. Raghavendra]

At 2016-05-14T11:38:53+02:00, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> The gnu.org SMTP servers have been timing out on incoming mail for some
> people the last couple of days, whether you're posting through Gmane or
> not.  But some seem to make it through, for some reason...
>
> Or perhaps it's just email from Norway?  I wonder whether this one make
> it through...

A message I sent about two and a half hours ago hasn't yet made it to
the list.  But it's a message from a freshly subscribed address, and, as
Bob said, there's an initial delay for a first posting to the list, so
that may be the reason.

Cheers,
Raghu.

-- 
N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>, http://www.retrotexts.net/
Harish-Chandra Research Institute, http://www.hri.res.in/

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Emanuel Berg]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> writes:

> The gnu.org SMTP servers have been timing out on
> incoming mail for some people the last couple of
> days, whether you're posting through Gmane or not.
> But some seem to make it through, for some
> reason...

OK, apologizes, I guess, for theorizing it was Gmane,
but probably by now you are hardened by people doing
that now and then...

> Or perhaps it's just email from Norway? I wonder
> whether this one make it through...

It did, but not mails from Sweden! This has to be the
first time tho that Norway is better than Sweden :)

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 30 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Emanuel Berg]

"N. Raghavendra" <nyraghu27132@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for the clarification. I have now created
> a Gmail account for reading mailing lists, and have
> subscribed it to this list. I am posting this
> message from there.

Check out gmane.discuss - it is not Gmane where the
problem is!

> Since I have now moved from Gmane to Gmail, and
> have configured Gnus to read and post from the
> Gmail account, things should be alright.

Things should be alright when the queues at gnu.org
are worked out.

Switching from Gmane to Gmail is severe
self-hampering - politically but also with respect to
technology (i.e., user power)...

The advantages in technology are obvious; as for
politics, if you'd like, read this:

    https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 30 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Emanuel Berg]

"N. Raghavendra" <nyraghu27132@gmail.com> writes:

>> The gnu.org SMTP servers have been timing out on
>> incoming mail for some people the last couple of
>> days, whether you're posting through Gmane or not.
>> But some seem to make it through, for some
>> reason... Or perhaps it's just email from Norway?
>> I wonder whether this one make it through...
>
> A message I sent about two and a half hours ago
> hasn't yet made it to the list.

If this is indeed a queuing problem it is much worse
than that. Perhaps I'm making it even worse, right
now...

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 30 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Bob Proulx]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > The internet standard for email message delivery is to try for 240 hours 
> > or 10 days whichever comes first then return delivery error report to 
> > the sender if delivery has failed in those 240 hours or 10 days.  It was 
> > designed that way since the internet's original purpose was to survive a 
> > nuclear attack.
> 
> I never saw such long timeouts.

Five days for the undeliverable bounce has been typical as commonly
implemented.  It needs to be long enough to survive a 3-day weekend
failure so that admins can fix it upon return to work.  But three days
is also very common too.  The shortest time possible to positively
diagnose undeliverable mail is desired.  Really long timeouts mean
that undeliverable mail remains in the queue consuming resources upon
retry for the entire time.  And long timeouts mean the user doesn't
get feedback of a problem for that entire time.  As short as practical
is best.

> I generally get a soft error message after 1 hour, and a "hard"
> delivery failure after 2 hours.

Personally I hate those soft warning messages.  I always disable them
on my own mail servers.  They only confuse people these days.  I am
always needing to explain them again and again to people when they
receive them in their mail to random places on the net.  "No your mail
hasn't bounced. Not yet. It might eventually. But it will retry until
then. It just wasn't delivered immediately."  It is tiring.  And worse
is when it is part of backscatter spam.  People are confused because
they get those warning of non-delivery for a spam message that forged
their From: address.  Argh!

Bob

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Bob Proulx]

N. Raghavendra wrote:
> Bob Proulx wrote:
> > Your address is both whitelisted and subscribed.  Therefore you have
> > both posted and have subscribed.  There will be no moderation of your
> > messages unless you change your address.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.  I have now created a Gmail account for
> reading mailing lists, and have subscribed it to this list.  I am
> posting this message from there.

All looks to be working okay. :-)

> > In theory this is just email, simply needs the In-Reply-To: and
> > References: set correctly, and that is all.
> 
> Since I have now moved from Gmane to Gmail, and have configured Gnus to
> read and post from the Gmail account, things should be alright.

And it appears to be all working okay.  Your new address was held for
moderation because it was the first time it was ever seen.  A short
delay in that message.  One of the folks in the listhelper volunteer
team saw it and approved it.  (Wasn't me this time.)  Continuing
conversation from you will not be moderated and will be passed through
at the speed of the mail servers in the mail route.

Bob

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Bob Proulx]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> > The gnu.org SMTP servers have been timing out on incoming mail for some
> > people the last couple of days, whether you're posting through Gmane or
> > not.  But some seem to make it through, for some reason...
> > 
> > Or perhaps it's just email from Norway?  I wonder whether this one make
> > it through...  
> 
> gnu.org machines have connectivity problems lately.  I hope they will
> be resolved soon.

Since Friday the 6th there was a large move with various assorted
related and unrelated changes.  Which has made it difficult to tell
what broke what.  I am deep in the middle of *.savannah and can give
the most information about it.

The *.savannah.gnu.org machines moved to a different host server in
the same data center.  But their file systems got repackaged and the
copy process had problems.  1) All of the system uids were mapped to
the host used to do the copy.  All of those had to be renamed back to
their proper uids.  Fixed that.  2) All of the ACLs were lost.  This
prevented the web team from being able to access files.  Fixed that.
3) Swap was lost.  Causing OOM activity.  Fixed that. 4) Additionally
a very new kernel from the host system was booted instead of the
system one.  That caused a subset of networking problems.  The managed
switch was reporting a continuous high rate of dropped packets.
Reverting back to the system kernel fixed the switch's reports of
dropped packets.  5) This happened late on a Friday without notice
meaning that we had to scramble around over the weekend to find and
fix the problems.  6) Long term there has been persistent problems
with stuck connections to git, cvs, bzr, hg daemons.  Since git is by
far most popular we mostly hear about git problems but it happens with
the others too.  The stuck daemons stack up consuming slots until all
of the xinetd slots are filled and it hits the limit at 100 processes
running.  At that point no new connections can be made.  This has been
made worse by the Friday network move.  Something is now tickly this
problem agressively.  We are manually monitoring this and mitigating
it by killing stale processes.  We hope this to be fixed as soon as we
can migrate onto the new operating sytsem VMs promised to us any day
now for the last two years.

On the same day the entire Boston FSF network was changed to a
different network routing of which I know little.  I don't have much
visibility into this change.  traceroute shows a different route now.
This changed for every system.  People are reporting many problems
across all of the system.  There are reports of differences seen
between IPv4 and IPv6.

Except for the stuck process problem I think the Savannah systems are
running within nominal limits.  It is "normal".  For Savannah anyway.
(Not to say things don't need fixing.  But we are waiting in the
pipeline for a new VM that we can migrate onto.)  However all of the
random network problems people are reporting include fencepost, eggs
(mail relay), lists.gnu.org (mailing list), www.gnu.org, and many
others.  Those don't have anything in common except for the networking
and all are suffering.

If you are suffering problems I encourage a trouble report being
made.  Please include details.  Say where from and where to.  Say
whether it was IPv4 or IPv6.  Time the problem occurred.  Then if
later it works update and say that.  Because one of the problems is
that this seems worse from Europe than from the US.  I in Colorado
have a hard time triggering any problems.  But I have been able to on
occassion.  But people in Europe have been most of the problem
reports.  Most of them have been using IPv6.

And that is all I know.

Bob

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Bob Proulx]

Bob Proulx wrote:
> N. Raghavendra wrote:
> > Bob Proulx wrote:
> > > Your address is both whitelisted and subscribed.  Therefore you have
> > > both posted and have subscribed.  There will be no moderation of your
> > > messages unless you change your address.
> > 
> > Thanks for the clarification.  I have now created a Gmail account for
> > reading mailing lists, and have subscribed it to this list.  I am
> > posting this message from there.
> 
> All looks to be working okay. :-)

Emanuel asked me how I could say things were working okay when
obviously there were all of these problems.  And a good question.
Certainly fair enough.  I was ambiguous in what I said above.

In the above I was speaking specifically about the mailing lists.
Imagine a Venn diagram with many overlapping circles.  One circle is
mailing list.  One is Savannah.  Savannah has several circles for
different parts of it.  One is the web pages on different machines.
And so forth.  One is network connectivity which touches everything.

Here in the above I was specifically referring to email through the
mailing lists.  The anti-spam listhelper part.  The Mailman part.
In conversing with Raghu here about his email and subscriptions and
mailing list I think everything associated with that is working
normally.

As to the larger network connectivity problems...  Those problems are
continuing.  They are severe.  They are intermittent.  They are
frustrating.  But not related to the mailing list subscription issues
and mail through Gmane and Gmail and so forth.  Separate things.  And
separate things have separate problems.

Hope this helps,
Bob

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[tomas]

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On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 04:25:17PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
[...]
> Since Friday the 6th there was a large move with various assorted
> related and unrelated changes [...]

Just to say "thank you" to you and all other unnamed folks working
hard to keep the lights on!

regards
- -- t
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Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> If you are suffering problems I encourage a trouble report being
> made.  Please include details.  Say where from and where to.  Say
> whether it was IPv4 or IPv6.  Time the problem occurred.  Then if
> later it works update and say that. 

Gmane hasn't been able to deliver mail to eggs.gnu.org since this all
began, and there's currently 50 mails in the queue.  (I think they've
started to time out completely and be discarded from the queue.)  The
Gmane servers are in Norway, and are IPv4 only.

I've included some lines from the log below:

2016-05-16 11:07:43 1b1sbi-0006i0-7X == emacs-orgmode@gnu.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-46): SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: host eggs.gnu.org [208.118.235.92]: 421 eggs.gnu.org SMTP incoming data timeout - closing connection.
2016-05-16 11:18:17 1b13oy-0001Py-9u == emacs-orgmode@gnu.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (110): Connection timed out: SMTP timeout while connected to eggs.gnu.org [208.118.235.92] after end of data (1828 bytes written)
2016-05-16 11:19:41 1b0mfX-0002hb-EF == bug-lilypond@gnu.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (110): Connection timed out: SMTP timeout while connected to eggs.gnu.org [208.118.235.92] after end of data (2646 bytes written)
2016-05-16 11:36:50 1b2Bkb-0001o5-Mo == emacs-orgmode@gnu.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (110): Connection timed out: SMTP timeout while connected to eggs.gnu.org [208.118.235.92] after end of data (2698 bytes written)

In addition, now and then I see lines like

2016-05-16 11:55:10 1b0wxV-0002ct-9J eggs.gnu.org [2001:4830:134:3::10] Network is unreachable

Which is very odd, since there's nothing IPv6 configured on the server.

Telnetting to the server works, and I can talk to it, but it times out
after the final "." of the email.  Which makes me suspect that it's
doing some kind of spam filtering, and the spam filter is timing out.

plane:~# telnet eggs.gnu.org smtp
Trying 208.118.235.92...
Connected to eggs.gnu.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 eggs.gnu.org ESMTP Exim 4.71 Mon, 16 May 2016 06:01:44 -0400
HELP
214-Commands supported:
214 AUTH HELO EHLO MAIL RCPT DATA NOOP QUIT RSET HELP


-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[N. Raghavendra]

At 2016-05-15T16:33:33-06:00, Bob Proulx wrote:

> In conversing with Raghu here about his email and subscriptions and
> mailing list I think everything associated with that is working
> normally.

I can indeed confirm that things are working normally now with respect
to my interactions with the Gnu mailing lists.  Many thanks for the
detailed responses to my problems, and for checking that they have
indeed been solved.

Cheers,
Raghu.

-- 
N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>, http://www.retrotexts.net/
Harish-Chandra Research Institute, http://www.hri.res.in/

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> writes:

> Gmane hasn't been able to deliver mail to eggs.gnu.org since this all
> began, and there's currently 50 mails in the queue. 

Looks like eggs started accepting emails from Gmane just now.  I can see
the queue draining...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Bob Proulx]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
> > Gmane hasn't been able to deliver mail to eggs.gnu.org since this all
> > began, and there's currently 50 mails in the queue. 
> 
> Looks like eggs started accepting emails from Gmane just now.  I can see
> the queue draining...

It does look like the dam has broken and all of the water is now
rushing by.  A lot of posts from the last several days are arriving.
Looks like this part of things is now working again.  Yay! :-)

Bob

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> It does look like the dam has broken and all of the water is now
> rushing by.  A lot of posts from the last several days are arriving.
> Looks like this part of things is now working again.  Yay! :-)

Yay, indeed!  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups

[Michael Heerdegen]

"N. Raghavendra" <raghu@hri.res.in> writes:

> I read the mailing lists I am subscribed to as newsgroups through
> Gmane.  Lately, I've been having problems with posting through Gmane
> --- posts don't reach the mailing list for several hours, first
> postings to a list don't trigger an auto-authorization message from
> Gmane, etc.

AFAIK there were serious problems with this stuff the last days.  It
could be that it works again now.  Older posts have appeared now
(including yours).

> So, I am wondering if it is possible to post articles and followups in
> Gmane newsgroups by email.  For example, if I am in the summary buffer
> of the gmane.emacs.orgmode group, and hit `a', I'd like Gnus to start
> composing a mail message to emacs-orgmode@gnu.org.  Similarly, if I am
> in the summary buffer of that group and hit "F", I'd like Gnus to start
> composing a *mail* reply to the selected article, with
> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org as the "To" address.  Is there a way to do this?

If I recall correctly, just r or R should already do the right thing
(the mailing list addresses can be retrieved from the messages' headers)
for replying.  I'm not sure how to replace a.  But hopefully things work
again now as expected anyway, so you don't need to do this.


Regards,

Michael.

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups

[N. Raghavendra]

At 2016-05-16T22:26:15+02:00, Michael Heerdegen wrote:

> If I recall correctly, just r or R should already do the right thing
> (the mailing list addresses can be retrieved from the messages' headers)
> for replying.  I'm not sure how to replace a.  But hopefully things work
> again now as expected anyway, so you don't need to do this.

I found the way to do it.  You have to set group parameters like this:

("nntp\\+gmane:gmane\\.emacs\\.orgmode"
  (to-address . "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org")
  (to-list . "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org"))

This will start a mail message to emacs-orgmode@gnu.org when one presses
a,f,F,r,R in the gmane.emacs.org summary buffer.

Cheers,
Raghu.

-- 
N. Raghavendra <raghu@hri.res.in>, http://www.retrotexts.net/
Harish-Chandra Research Institute, http://www.hri.res.in/

Re: Mail posting in newsgroups in Gnus

[Emanuel Berg]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> Since Friday the 6th there was a large move
> with various assorted related and unrelated
> changes ...

Thanks for sharing with us mere plebeians at
gnu.emacs.help.

I remember one discussion about - I don't
remember what the discussion was about - but
anyway you said you enjoy writing and reading
problem/solution logs, and I suppose this is an
example of that.

Perhaps there will be one from even closer to
the center, or from the center itself, and if
not, we should all try to help Bob in his
career so in some utopian future, there will be
full disclosure :)

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
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