From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Rankin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: pirate bay, w3m, and the interface is just an interface (BEST post ever) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:39:21 +1000 Message-ID: References: <87k31v83eb.fsf@debian.uxu> <87vbles537.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418567995 17200 80.91.229.3 (14 Dec 2014 14:39:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 14:39:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 14 15:39:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0AKr-0003Xo-1s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 15:39:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36183 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0AKq-0003IE-MA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45783) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0AKZ-0003Hc-FE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0AKU-0007ES-7b for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:31 -0500 Original-Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]:51666) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0AKU-0007EO-3R for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:26 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B29206DB; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:25 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tilk.co; h= x-sasl-enc:references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mesmtp; bh=0vjWc6nkZPwg1zFVV3RCbxveNaY=; b=KzZlI5plQAS6Fbr+GA FJLmdZ6NUbhebuTLpCKn6ri0SN0ujehak16eIUSSajRT0wdtpSkiRrWSmpJwO/xQ 5wNRHnAZBUUw8tUGTQqdQ7bmiEw/dfHmSz8K+V5mfbAegX+Q0jC9kaxfox8XKQGU ZODNhdhGa7OZBlGo/T+hYXI2I= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:references:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=0vjWc6nkZPwg1zFVV3RCbx veNaY=; b=U/3rLaUDpctMMp+qFkAuNAFFJh201McMnQkmcQ44YCmQCxqYSQaVgF 0dPPs86TGFsB+ukfyXOo77bCaSU4cPnXZsE9MJMtwJ4qzGe/O8ceY0gqpGr8I2cz vs1iIvPBtLy5ggafGkTAkEpaEQuwvEKHDLh0n4z0kFDqgh5pmsCO8= X-Sasl-enc: dwJmURRravvxKRosU5rQiETEviruzfMhKBCgIU0gBqoL 1418567964 Original-Received: from Paul-Rankins-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [202.0.190.43]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EEE7FC0027F; Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:39:23 -0500 (EST) In-reply-to: <87vbles537.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.27 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101571 Archived-At: Marcin Borkowski at 00:01 on 15 Dec 2014: > 1. It's not "piracy". It's "illegal copying of stuff". Piracy is when > I have a ship, and I'm attacking other ships, take prisoners etc. Meh, I'm a linguistic descriptivist. > 2. It's not "stealing". Stealing is taking a *physical* object away > from its owner so that he/she cannot use it anymore. Again, descriptivist. But even the "first profession" lacked the exchange of a physical object, so I don't think you can hold onto this idea (I'm actually surprised people still say this). > 3. That said, I am not saying that illegal copying is legal (by > definiton, it's not) or moral (I am pretty confident that in many cases > it's not). This is why I do not download music or movies from the 'net, > even though it is perfectly legal (at least in my country – provided I > do not distribute them further). But fighting immoral deeds with > immoral propaganda (because that's what the "entertainment industry" is > doing: essentially they spread lies, like in the infamous "you wouldn't > steal a car" clip) is again, by definition, immoral. And I do not > believe they have the artists' interest in mind *at* *all* (possibly > with very rare exceptions). This raises a very good point. I think there has been something of a cultural shift in the last few decades, or maybe even century, wherein people have detached somewhat from their communities and constructed a kind of internal morality. This may seem a plainly obvious point to make, but contrast it with the kind of deontological societies of a few hundred years ago and I think we can say we're in a very different age. So yes, there seems a tendency to look upon the community and judge this or that law/rule as fair or unfair, then appropriately internalise it, for example, one might reject with ease the paternalistic law requiring one to wear a seat-belt, but then become irate at the driver who runs a red light. Sure, the driver running the red endangered others while you're only endangering yourself, but that's not the point. We seem to want the game to have enforced rules because the rules give the game its meaning, but then accept/reject the rules based on internal criteria. This of course collides with a contradiction as the overarching rule for any of this whole humanity project to work is that we all follow the rules (thank you Kant) and, given the veil of ignorance (thank you Rawls) we all want that others do the same.