From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolaj Schumacher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:51:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: <873ajzwoqu.fsf@kobe.laptop> <823901dd-c54c-4e3b-b6ad-512d52724a46@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com> <87ljxoffs6.fsf@atthis.clsnet.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1221907924 10208 80.91.229.12 (20 Sep 2008 10:52:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:52:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Xah Lee Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 20 12:53:00 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Kh05E-00049Z-9t for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:53:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46104 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kh04C-0000mA-PQ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:51:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kh03v-0000lv-GC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kh03t-0000lj-PQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40880 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kh03t-0000lg-Lx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:51:37 -0400 Original-Received: from dd18200.kasserver.com ([85.13.138.168]:47240) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kh03t-0005ER-5Y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:51:37 -0400 Original-Received: from thursday (kobz-590e70fb.pool.einsundeins.de [89.14.112.251]) by dd18200.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44C518027C49; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:51:37 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Xah Lee's message of "Fri\, 19 Sep 2008 17\:02\:11 -0700 \(PDT\)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2.50 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:57845 Archived-At: Xah Lee wrote: > On Sep 19, 9:13 am, Nikolaj Schumacher wrote: > >> We just call them (scratch) buffers. They provide all the >> same featuresXah's"untitled files" do. Really, the only differences are >> nomenclature, the way of creating them and the fact that one exists by >> default. > > That's not the only differences. I have given detail on other > differences. Yes. Please note that the post you quoted was sent after my message, so the other difference hadn't been made clear at that time. > =E2=80=A2 There is no easy, intuitive way to create multiple scratch buff= ers. > (it is done by using the switch-to-buffer command (C-x b) and give > name that is not one of existing buffers.) But on the other hand, creating multiple scratch buffers with names like "untitled" through "untitledN" might not be in the users best interest. I agree there should probably at least be a menu entry for "New buffer" in the "Buffers" menu. > =E2=80=A2 Emacs does not provide a user level function to create a new > buffer. It has =E2=80=9COpen file...=E2=80=9D (a wrapper to the find-fil= e command), > which immediately prompt user for a full file path. This is annoying. > Modern apps's New File command actually just create a new untitled > file without prompting, and only when user save it it prompt a file > name. Well, not exclusively. For instance, Xcode prompts for the type of file, then for the name. You should note that apps that do this differently almost never call this "New file". Because a file without a file name doesn't make sense. Instead, they call this "New " or just "New". (At least all the apps on my computer do.) So in the context of Emacs, the correct name would probably be "New buffer". > The problem with switch-to-buffer is that it doesn't promp to save > when user closes it. In both, the functions are simply not designed > for creating a new temp buffer. Of course that depends on how you define "temp" buffer... I would avoid that name for for what you're suggesting. I /would/ like certain buffers to prompt before closing. You should add autosaving to the mix, too. Sometimes I do too much actual work in the scratch buffer, which is lost if Emacs crashes. All this, however, is no reason to remove the scratch buffer. I can see it defaulting to fundamental-mode, not having that message in it, and prompting if modified and killed. But somehow I feel your proposed fix doesn't fit your initial demand (removing the scratch buffer). The scratch buffer itself isn't a usability problem. It's limitations are. So, if anything, you're improving the scratch buffer not scrapping it. regards, Nikolaj Schumacher