From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rainer M Krug Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1416905568 29941 80.91.229.3 (25 Nov 2014 08:52:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:52:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Raffaele Ricciardi To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 25 09:52:41 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XtBrT-0006JW-Ki for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:52:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56050 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtBrT-0002fU-9s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:52:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33233) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtBrA-0002e9-Pv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:52:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtBr3-0003Dk-2v for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:52:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-f181.google.com ([209.85.212.181]:42520) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtBr2-0003Dg-T2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:52:13 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id r20so603578wiv.14 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=ReLwKZSDxYTkkMDrGAtf7UJyM90iH2djbS4f68EqWvw=; b=gzHEv+clOCPbMDF/kje4tmoCtihjtSsn+HelUARRjTQZ1wDeaybFcggnnx/cgHzJEP HSB3s8ya6wflRilY+35LJr/0EOL22w4Zr9Izjmhb6tNOpmVqF7INVxnYdFk2tsC3/pNl CExDdzVBKvO/2o7YsNqnJ7bevDZ5s8eiovHm4eiLajNr75ntWyVtnuvECv10z5OtAHRo lhlMKjokivoL3G6sDu9HoS6VO3mkJGTgmOwsOUM8emDqQhRV6mwkxwzQK0lXxGpyVEV1 KPDF8nYVFFSUWBGGlagHVGJ9IICYNgNpl6z3OOv456fcUA6lxJC8f0c/nAktlmNXyf5o MqWA== X-Received: by 10.180.21.210 with SMTP id x18mr29434216wie.19.1416905531603; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:52:11 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Rainers-MacBook-Pro-4.local (arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net. [88.186.171.7]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cq4sm916591wjc.35.2014.11.25.00.52.10 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:52:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.212.181 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101150 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drew Adams writes: >> The usefulness of frames is evident for buffers that update their >> content according to the current buffer (like Speedbar and ECB). >> Besides this kind of use, when do you prefer frames instead of >> windows? > > Personally, almost always. A window-manager window (Emacs frame) > is more flexible than an Emacs window - more features/possibilities. > > Emacs windows were conceived long, long ago - before window > managers were supported/recognized by Emacs and even, for the > most part, before they existed. They are vestigial organs that > have some limited uses but are generally not the best way to > interact, IMO. > > I generally don't like apps to try to lock everything they do into > a single window-mgr window (frame) and provide their own internal > windows within that frame. That applies to Emacs also. Whenever > possible/practical, I free such internal windows to become normal > window-mgr windows. With Emacs this is even better, as you can > manipulate frames using the keyboard, not just the mouse. > > However, out of the box, support for using Emacs frames is pretty > primitive. So I jump through a bunch of configuration hooks to > be able to use them easily (including keyboard manipulation). > > Just one (minority) opinion. > > I would ask an opposite question: IF you could use Emacs frames > as easily as you can use Emacs windows, in what scenarios would > you prefer using Emacs windows, and why? In the old Windows (95, 98, 2000 - after that I gave up with Windows) there were also the options to have in e.g. the Turbo Pascal IDE the windows in one application window (as "windows" under emacs) or as separate windows (as frames under emacs). And everybody had different preferences. And I think it it the same here. One major advantage under Linux when using frames instead of windows, is "focus follows mouse" - you can simply switch between different emacs frames by moving the mouse, which you can't when using windows. I know - I take cover - real emacs user don't use the mose, but for me it was faster to move the mouse then switching to a different frame, especially when more then one frame was present. Now I am using a Mac - not because I don not like Linux anymore, but because I think the hardware is simply brilliant - with OSX (Linux does not play nicely along with the retina display and the touch pad the last time I teried it out) the focus does not follow the mouse, so I am using frames as kind of topical separation for my buffers. One other advantage of using frames is multiple monitors - one frame per monitor. Cheers, Rainer > > =2D-=20 Rainer M. Krug email: Rainerkrugsde PGP: 0x0F52F982 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUdEM4AAoJENvXNx4PUvmChJcIAMRZ7NeNXi5uEw12RA6DYG4S qDhtkVIBQADliUbKGM2w2+0clip4ZktphDsQkiXnDorIwecQYhgQSh8v+zs5Y9lx 7FloNxdTLyoLcArIDbIF6UmqglrAIOkIKxwXJ/RyQ+c9oamqXluF+LSkGGhTURYu WkZ36GGGgiecu/f/ylUDfM0h6tlWeWjkvsk6GZ7VE0sghZgWpKegV+2D0a9IMfjG ETS2FNZv6rrCGqp8f1dGzpaEavlD+TXvQhCSK/osUzSRGdLIB1CE6FHOERE5JWI7 xwTM4vsI4NRUwm8D7chH9oSjgbGjpGPrhn1/tWfpuVxeOi2Xg0bu3vK9kGx9brs= =WYo9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--