From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [External] : Supplying DOC string in a `defun' using `defvar' Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:39:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871r9ly7v3.fsf@web.de> <87r1hlw6pn.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18067"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Christopher Dimech , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 03 00:40:01 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1loZWq-0004Mt-Tp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 00:40:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50534 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1loZWp-0002zW-28 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:39:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40054) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1loZWU-0002zJ-OA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:39:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:11931) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1loZWR-0001yu-Rz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:39:38 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C96181002D5; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 25855100234; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:39:33 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1622673573; bh=aEfMsypDCvVlZZHBd/4NkkxLOV8KTV4zQHbMFTvcQlI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=QeOYLzXbwXqikQ19u8iXzuNa0WcXXT0ZEwNhPtUUb6z6Ofg5jH6mfVEMLaa/t0K/d FSUoTYcNH0E8G0B5WZHjGTNyJdEu/ac4t6v+qYHz1fiQzZ8EkYloXrAJKLkdWE/ws6 jTCjggR4BOG6CD9+K9Wpk7FWp1WUq4y+ZS+13B0AJs7Aqj9o2gDeMQQyp9dglHAqF2 io/7Y+B49LoNLlZRIyDwCChVMEX5aecz7DW8U7H4c7o1+bfKNVKsPGUqG8A+4JkwKK 0mIsAlYVa+v3TZ9MIb7PbgKvZXG4xTI/3Dj4Q29ZS5wKbyn3F+1o2rSjhhgAD+a7uA /Z966P+vtA3vg== Original-Received: from alfajor (69-196-163-239.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.163.239]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E90681201C1; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:39:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 2 Jun 2021 22:24:01 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:130516 Archived-At: > As I'm sure you know, by "this should be fixed" > I meant please fix :documentation, so it works > with both "dialects". Patch welcome. > The "fix" of introducing broken stuff, and saying "It'll all be fixed > when the dynamic dialect finally goes away" doesn't cut the mustard. > That's just "Demain on rase gratis !". The fact is: the two dialects *are* different and that's the price that had to be paid in order to introduce lexical scoping without breaking all the existing code. The fact that `:documentation` only works in the new dialect is the least common hurdle among several others (I've already seen at least 20 cases here on gnu.emacs.help (plus at least the same amount in other places) of ELisp snippets working only in the new dialect and users stumbling because of that, this is the first that involves the obscure `:documentation` feature). So, while it is technically possible to make :documentation work in the old dialect, it won't fix the core problem nor its most common manifestations. That core problem can only be fixed by helping people move to the new dialect as quickly as possible so we can go back to living in a single dialect. This discussion has already helped one user change its code to the new dialect, so maybe the fact that `:documentation` doesn't work in the old dialect should be seen as a feature to help people move to the new dialect. Stefan