From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: using use-package Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:45:32 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <20150805055619.13567.17B26335@ahiker.mooo.com> <17131863-cbb8-4a85-8470-490fe9a0c0d4@googlegroups.com> <66dceb24-5fef-4316-8c8b-e9a3e62b0fb8@googlegroups.com> <3594e2c6-bd02-412f-98df-9dd0f145277a@googlegroups.com> <01b4d996-aad3-44ff-a580-7950b25b7dc8@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439139021 23784 80.91.229.3 (9 Aug 2015 16:50:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:50:21 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 09 18:50:21 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZOTng-0008Sf-Cr for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:50:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55780 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZOTnf-0007Rv-N8 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:50:19 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!feeder.erje.net!us.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.fsmpi.rwth-aachen.de!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 28 Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="81077855a1b79cdd446ddfce5f593b54"; logging-data="27017"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18KjdxAMuHlLlp0+00T+7J7" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:j4oAKsq1QWW/eHFyqy56Ts8wfEc= sha1:cEJpBiW05wJBjkLGrdSB5T+u+8s= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:214125 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106409 Archived-At: > One basic property of FP is that things should not be more order sensitive > than the minimum (data-dependency) required Agreed. > By not having package-archive as an autoload, those two statements become > more order dependent than they (seemingly) need be. I don't see it that way: add-to-list is inherently different from setq (from a data-dependency point of view), so you can't expect (add-to-list 'foo bar) to work properly without first loading the package that defines foo. Relying on variables being autoloaded would just open another can of worms. > And if core emacs functionality can be thus fragile is it realistic to expect > random packages to satisfy all the new/changing/confusing best practices? AFAIK those "best practices" aren't very new and changing. They've been used for bundled Emacs packages for many years and all GNU ELPA packages have strived to do the same from the very beginning. > IOW you folks should give a serious consideration to putting > (something like) use-package (better req-package) in the core The problem is to define "something like". Stefan