Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Mathias Dahl]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> Or, in other words, are there commands or tricks possible only when
>> transient-mark-mode is off?
>
> IMO, it's fine for newbies - and for everyone else. Some of us have been
> trying to get it to be the default behavior for years.

I tried it for a long time but got pissed off by getting the region
highlighted when I did not want to, one time too many. For example
when using C-x C-x to switch point and mark. Maybe that would have
been possible to turn off, don't know, I was too lazy to find out I
guess.

/Mathias

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Eric Hanchrow]

>>>>> "Mathias" == Mathias Dahl <brakjoller@gmail.com> writes:

    Mathias> I tried [transient-mark-mode] for a long time but got
    Mathias> pissed off by getting the region highlighted when I did
    Mathias> not want to, one time too many.  For example when using
    Mathias> C-x C-x to switch point and mark.  

I use C-u C-SPC for that; it seems to work about as well.

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Harald Hanche-Olsen]

+ Mathias Dahl <brakjoller@gmail.com>:

> I tried it for a long time but got pissed off by getting the region
> highlighted when I did not want to, one time too many. For example
> when using C-x C-x to switch point and mark.

Then hit C-g to turn off the highlight.

-- 
* Harald Hanche-Olsen     <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
- It is undesirable to believe a proposition
  when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true.
  -- Bertrand Russell

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Mathias Dahl]

Harald Hanche-Olsen <hanche@math.ntnu.no> writes:

> + Mathias Dahl <brakjoller@gmail.com>:
>
>> I tried it for a long time but got pissed off by getting the region
>> highlighted when I did not want to, one time too many. For example
>> when using C-x C-x to switch point and mark.
>
> Then hit C-g to turn off the highlight.

Well, that's the thing, I don't want to have to do any of those
tricks, C-g, M-w or whatever, to get rid of it.  I guess I want it to
magically guess when I want it active, and that is quite hard. So I
keep transient-mark-mode off.

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Johan Bockgård]

Mathias Dahl <brakjoller@gmail.com> writes:

> Well, that's the thing, I don't want to have to do any of those
> tricks, C-g, M-w or whatever, to get rid of it.  I guess I want it to
> magically guess when I want it active, and that is quite hard. So I
> keep transient-mark-mode off.

I use temporary transient mark mode for mark commands

    (progn
      '#1=((after transient-mark activate)
           "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
           (setq transient-mark-mode 'only))
      (defadvice mark-sexp              . #1#)
      (defadvice mark-word              . #1#)
      (defadvice mark-paragraph         . #1#)
      (defadvice mark-defun             . #1#)
      (defadvice mark-end-of-sentence   . #1#)
      (defadvice mark-page              . #1#)
      (defadvice mark-whole-buffer      . #1#)

      (defadvice LaTeX-mark-environment . #1#)
      (defadvice LaTeX-mark-section     . #1#))

The mark commands set the mark at a place away from point, and
highlighting shows more clearly what's going on. Especially in Emacs 22,
where repeating a mark command extends the region.

-- 
Johan Bockgård

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Mathias Dahl]

bojohan+news@dd.chalmers.se (Johan Bockgård) writes:

> I use temporary transient mark mode for mark commands
>
>     (progn
>       '#1=((after transient-mark activate)
>            "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
>            (setq transient-mark-mode 'only))
>       (defadvice mark-sexp              . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-word              . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-paragraph         . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-defun             . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-end-of-sentence   . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-page              . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-whole-buffer      . #1#)
>
>       (defadvice LaTeX-mark-environment . #1#)
>       (defadvice LaTeX-mark-section     . #1#))

WTF! What IS that stuff?! I thought you had yanked some text by
mistake, but that actually works! :) Can anyone explain how/why? What
puzzles me the most is the "thing" that looks like a declaration
('#1=).

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Tassilo Horn]

Mathias Dahl <brakjoller@gmail.com> writes:

> bojohan+news@dd.chalmers.se (Johan Bockgård) writes:
>
>> I use temporary transient mark mode for mark commands
>>
>>     (progn
>>       '#1=((after transient-mark activate)
>>            "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
>>            (setq transient-mark-mode 'only))
>>       (defadvice mark-sexp              . #1#)
>>       (defadvice mark-word              . #1#)
>>       (defadvice mark-paragraph         . #1#)
>>       (defadvice mark-defun             . #1#)
>>       (defadvice mark-end-of-sentence   . #1#)
>>       (defadvice mark-page              . #1#)
>>       (defadvice mark-whole-buffer      . #1#)
>>
>>       (defadvice LaTeX-mark-environment . #1#)
>>       (defadvice LaTeX-mark-section     . #1#))
>
> WTF! What IS that stuff?!

,----[ (info "(elisp)Circular Objects") ]
| To represent shared or circular structures within a complex of Lisp
| objects, you can use the reader constructs `#N=' and `#N#'.
| 
|    Use `#N=' before an object to label it for later reference;
| subsequently, you can use `#N#' to refer the same object in another
| place.  Here, N is some integer.
`----

I didn't know that, too.  Really not bad. :)

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
No person,  no idea, and no  religion deserves to be  illegal to insult,
not even the Church of Emacs. (Richard M. Stallman)

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Stefan Monnier]

>     (progn
>       '#1=((after transient-mark activate)
>            "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
>            (setq transient-mark-mode 'only))
>       (defadvice mark-sexp              . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-word              . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-paragraph         . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-defun             . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-end-of-sentence   . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-page              . #1#)
>       (defadvice mark-whole-buffer      . #1#)

>       (defadvice LaTeX-mark-environment . #1#)
>       (defadvice LaTeX-mark-section     . #1#))

Naughty boy!

A more conventional version could look like:

     (macrolet ((advise (&rest commands)
         `(progn
            ,@(mapcar (lambda (command)
                        `(defadvice ,(after transient-mark activate)
                           "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
                           (setq transient-mark-mode 'only)))
                      commands))))
       (advise mark-sexp
               mark-word
               mark-paragraph
               mark-defun
               mark-end-of-sentence
               mark-page
               mark-whole-buffer
               LaTeX-mark-environment
               LaTeX-mark-section))


-- Stefan

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Johan Bockgård]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Naughty boy!
>
> A more conventional version could look like:
>
>      (macrolet ((advise (&rest commands)
>          `(progn
>             ,@(mapcar (lambda (command)
>                         `(defadvice ,(after transient-mark activate)

                          `(defadvice ,command (after transient-mark activate)

>                            "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
>                            (setq transient-mark-mode 'only)))
>                       commands))))
>        (advise mark-sexp
>                mark-word
>                mark-paragraph
>                mark-defun
>                mark-end-of-sentence
>                mark-page
>                mark-whole-buffer
>                LaTeX-mark-environment
>                LaTeX-mark-section))

In fact, I already had this similar version that doesn't need macrolet

    ((macro
      . (lambda (&rest args)
          `(progn ,@(mapcar
                     (lambda (sym)
                       `(defadvice ,sym (after transient-mark activate)
                          "Activate Transient Mark mode temporarily."
                          (setq transient-mark-mode 'only)))
                     args))))
     mark-sexp mark-word mark-paragraph mark-defun
     mark-end-of-sentence mark-page mark-whole-buffer
     LaTeX-mark-environment LaTeX-mark-section)

-- 
Naughty Boy

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Mathias Dahl]

Eric Hanchrow <offby1@blarg.net> writes:

>     Mathias> I tried [transient-mark-mode] for a long time but got
>     Mathias> pissed off by getting the region highlighted when I did
>     Mathias> not want to, one time too many.  For example when using
>     Mathias> C-x C-x to switch point and mark.  
>
> I use C-u C-SPC for that; it seems to work about as well.

I use that too, a lot, to jump around, but I didn't think about it as
doing the same job.

Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[weber]

Or, in other words, are there commands or tricks possible only when
transient-mark-mode is off?
Regards,
weber

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Bastien]

weber <hugows@gmail.com> writes:

> Or, in other words, are there commands or tricks possible only when
> transient-mark-mode is off?

I'm not sure to understand.  But maybe C-SPC C-SPC might help: it
activates `transient-mark-mode' temporarily.

,----[ set-mark-command ]
| C-SPC runs the command set-mark-command
|   which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `simple.el'.
| It is bound to C-@, C-SPC.
| (set-mark-command arg)
| 
| Set the mark where point is, or jump to the mark.
| Setting the mark also alters the region, which is the text
| between point and mark; this is the closest equivalent in
| Emacs to what some editors call the "selection".
| 
| With no prefix argument, set the mark at point, and push the
| old mark position on local mark ring.  Also push the old mark on
| global mark ring, if the previous mark was set in another buffer.
| 
| Immediately repeating this command activates `transient-mark-mode' temporarily.
`----

-- 
Bastien

RE: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Drew Adams]

> Or, in other words, are there commands or tricks possible only when
> transient-mark-mode is off?

IMO, it's fine for newbies - and for everyone else. Some of us have been
trying to get it to be the default behavior for years.

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Barry Margolin]

In article <1192109562.973390.221400@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
 weber <hugows@gmail.com> wrote:

> Or, in other words, are there commands or tricks possible only when
> transient-mark-mode is off?
> Regards,
> weber

I've been using various versions of Emacs for over 25 years.  I just 
last week enabled transient-mark-mode.  I decided that I like the way 
that many commands will automatically switch from operating on the 
entire buffer to just the region when it's visible.

Also, I just installed TSUCHIYA Masatoshi's shell-command.el, mainly for 
its feature of enabling completion in the M-! and M-| prompts.  But it 
extends the above automatic behavior to M-|, a command I use very 
frequently.  If the region isn't visible, M-| automatically operates on 
the entire buffer, saving me from having to type C-x h over and over.

BTW, your question appears to presume that t-m-m was created to emulate 
Windows/Mac-style marking with the mouse.  In fact, it goes back to the 
ZMACS editor on the MIT Lisp Machines, which was written around 1980.  
GNU Emacs didn't have this originally because it was designed for text 
terminals, and highlighting the region on the fly was difficult on many 
types of terminals; it wasn't until it was adapted to window systems 
that this style could be resurrected with no overhead.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

Re: Is transient-mark-mode for newbies?

[Johan Bockgård]

Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:

> BTW, your question appears to presume that t-m-m was created to emulate 
> Windows/Mac-style marking with the mouse.  In fact, it goes back to the 
> ZMACS editor on the MIT Lisp Machines, which was written around 1980.

In XEmacs the feature is even known as `zmacs-regions'.

-- 
Johan Bockgård