headings in sh-mode

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

How can I set headings in `sh-mode` using `outline-minor-mode` ?

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

lisa-asket@perso.be [2021-07-02 03:46:06] wrote:
> How can I set headings in `sh-mode` using `outline-minor-mode` ?

What have you tried?


        Stefan

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

Using comments did not work.  But I can use `*`, `**`, `***`.




From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: headings in sh-mode
Date: 02/07/2021 04:07:41 Europe/Paris

lisa-asket@perso.be [2021-07-02 03:46:06] wrote:
> How can I set headings in `sh-mode` using `outline-minor-mode` ?

What have you tried?


Stefan

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Stefan Monnier]

lisa-asket@perso.be [2021-07-02 05:13:00] wrote:
> Using comments did not work.  But I can use `*`, `**`, `***`.

I was expecting answers in the form of some ELisp snippets, or URLs
describing how to do it, which you'd have presumably found by searching
the web.


        Stefan

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

>From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
>To: lisa-asket@perso.be
>Subject: Re: headings in sh-mode
>Date: 02/07/2021 15:52:27 Europe/Paris
>Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org

>>lisa-asket@perso.be [2021-07-02 05:13:00] wrote:
>> Using comments did not work.  But I can use `*`, `**`, `***`.
>
I was expecting answers in the form of some ELisp snippets, or URLs
>describing how to do it, which you'd have presumably found by searching
>the web.


No.  I just typed 



# Heading

## Heading

### Heading

#### Heading



Then I did 



* Heading

** Heading

*** Heading

**** Heading



The last headings took effect, but they srcew up the srcipt because they are not used as comments.

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

lisa-asket wrote:

> Then I did 
>
> * Heading
>
> ** Heading
>
> *** Heading
>
> **** Heading
>
> The last headings took effect, but they srcew up the srcipt
> because they are not used as comments.

Of course, you must obey the shell language rules (syntax in
this case), if you'd like it to work.

But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well, as
short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced, really,
they are just long).

If you really want something like that, can't `org-mode' do
little buttons under each of the ranked headings, and the
script will pop up and maybe execute, even?

I'm not an org-mode user myself, what you describe I recognize
from HTML and LaTeX but those are about organizing
_information_, not bunching together shell tools executing on
top of each other, and to the side...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: headings in sh-mode
Date: 02/07/2021 20:34:04 Europe/Paris

lisa-asket wrote:

> Then I did 
>
> * Heading
>
> ** Heading
>
> *** Heading
>
> **** Heading
>
> The last headings took effect, but they srcew up the srcipt
> because they are not used as comments.

>Of course, you must obey the shell language rules (syntax in
>this case), if you'd like it to work.



It was by default, I did not set them up.  Simply loaded a bash file,

called `M-x outline-minor-mode` and lines starting with `*` were

considered as headings.  This screws up shell scripts.  This problem

should be fixed so headings must start with `#` first.



>But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
>for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well, as
>short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced, really,
>they are just long).



The header hierarchy functionality is available, so I do not see 

how one can disregard a such a problem, advising people not to

use it. 



I went to the doctor because my thumb hurts.  He told me not to use it !



>If you really want something like that, can't `org-mode' do
>little buttons under each of the ranked headings, and the
>script will pop up and maybe execute, even?

>I'm not an org-mode user myself, what you describe I recognize
>from HTML and LaTeX but those are about organizing
>_information_, not bunching together shell tools executing on
>top of each other, and to the side...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Yuri Khan]

On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 01:34, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU
Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:

> But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
> for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well, as
> short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced, really,
> they are just long).

This. If your shell script is so long and/or nested that you want
folding, then you’re much better served by rewriting in a proper
programming language. My personal rule of thumb is, rewrite if you
want to do any arithmetics, or arrays, or the script no longer fits in
a single screenful.

A similar point goes for other programming languages: If you want to
fold parts of a function, the part you want to fold is a candidate for
extraction. If you want to hide some functions while looking at
others, maybe split your module.

A working folding facility can be a painkiller when working with
existing code. But don’t become addicted to painkillers.

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

>From: Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>
>To: Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu>;
>   help-gnu-emacs <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
>Subject: Re: headings in sh-mode
>Date: 02/07/2021 22:02:57 Europe/Paris

>On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 01:34, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU
>Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:

>> But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
>> for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well, as
>> short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced, really,
>> they are just long).

>This. If your shell script is so long and/or nested that you want
>folding, then you’re much better served by rewriting in a proper
>programming language. My personal rule of thumb is, rewrite if you
>want to do any arithmetics, or arrays, or the script no longer fits in
>a single screenful.



I am not arguing on the merits or otherwise of header folding.



Only pointing out that headings using outline-minor-mode should be

made to work correctly as expected by the minor mode, irrespective

of whether a user ultimately uses the functionality or not.



Such rational does make sense actually.  



>A similar point goes for other programming languages: If you want to
>fold parts of a function, the part you want to fold is a candidate for
>extraction. If you want to hide some functions while looking at
>others, maybe split your module.

>A working folding facility can be a painkiller when working with
>existing code. But don’t become addicted to painkillers.

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

> But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
> for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well, as
> short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced, really,
> they are just long).

While I tend to agree, I plead guilty to not following this advice:

https://gitlab.com/monnier/bugit/-/raw/main/bugit


        Stefan

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

> This problem should be fixed so ...

This sounds like you want to report a bug: `M-x report-emacs-bug`.


        Stefan

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

>From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
>To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: headings in sh-mode
>Date: 02/07/2021 22:43:01 Europe/Paris

>> But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
>> for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well, as
>> short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced, really,
>> they are just long).

>While I tend to agree, I plead guilty to not following this advice:

>https://gitlab.com/monnier/bugit/-/raw/main/bugit

Could the difficulties using outline-minor-mode be fixed nevertheless?

headings in sh-mode

[lisa-asket]

> From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: headings in sh-mode
> Date: 02/07/2021 22:44:58 Europe/Paris

> > This problem should be fixed so ...

> This sounds like you want to report a bug: `M-x report-emacs-bug`.

> Stefan



Hello Stefan, would you also consider it a bug and sending a bug report worthwhile?

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Yuri Khan wrote:

>> But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
>> for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well,
>> as short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced,
>> really, they are just long).
>
> This. If your shell script is so long and/or nested that you
> want folding, then you’re much better served by rewriting in
> a proper programming language. My personal rule of thumb is,
> rewrite if you want to do any arithmetics, or arrays, or the
> script no longer fits in a single screenful.
>
> A similar point goes for other programming languages: If you
> want to fold parts of a function, the part you want to fold
> is a candidate for extraction. If you want to hide some
> functions while looking at others, maybe split your module.
>
> A working folding facility can be a painkiller when working
> with existing code. But don’t become addicted
> to painkillers.

In so many words, agreed.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor wrote:

>> But honestly... you don't need a header hierarchy like this
>> for a shell script, they should be simple and short (well,
>> as short as possible, and long scripts aren't advanced,
>> really, they are just long).
>
> While I tend to agree, I plead guilty to not following this
> advice:
>
> https://gitlab.com/monnier/bugit/-/raw/main/bugit

2640 lines :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

lisa-asket wrote:

> Could the difficulties using outline-minor-mode be
> fixed nevertheless?

Report the bug!

It is great that you found it, now just report it!

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Stefan Monnier]

>> > This problem should be fixed so ...
>> This sounds like you want to report a bug: `M-x report-emacs-bug`.
> Hello Stefan, would you also consider it a bug and sending a bug
> report worthwhile?

What I think is not relevant to this decision,


        Stefan

Re: headings in sh-mode

[Nick Dokos]

lisa-asket@perso.be writes:


> Could the difficulties using outline-minor-mode be fixed nevertheless?
>

Yes - `C-h v outline-regexp` will give you the doc string of the variable.

-- 
Nick

"There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache
invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler