From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: using use-package Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:24:46 -0400 Message-ID: References: <67cb463e-41f6-4f37-91ee-15d0fdb5ba9f@googlegroups.com> <20150812180621.32265.2E673ABE@ahiker.mooo.com> <87bnebnyyl.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439479536 24439 80.91.229.3 (13 Aug 2015 15:25:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:25:36 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 13 17:25:27 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPuNi-00083Y-Qg for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:25:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43033 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPuNi-0002vk-4n for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:25:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32880) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPuNW-0002vK-AO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:25:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPuNR-0004YB-S2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:25:14 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:43229) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPuNR-0004Xs-LD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:25:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPuNL-0007k7-Ad for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:25:03 +0200 Original-Received: from 76-10-152-74.dsl.teksavvy.com ([76.10.152.74]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:25:03 +0200 Original-Received: from monnier by 76-10-152-74.dsl.teksavvy.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:25:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 38 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 76-10-152-74.dsl.teksavvy.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:7d1RVFaBv6lNbULORZmjj6flhM4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106535 Archived-At: >>> Stefan is saying that many packages do things _wrong_. >> Actually, no. What I was saying is that several use-package features >> are only useful if a package is poorly packaged. > Yes, or not packaged at all, or in development to be packaged in the > future or where the developer of a package which is well-packaged wants > to provide an option configuration for development time on his machine. > And this is some features, not but all of them. The core part of "Packaging" in the elpa.git world basically means: - Start the package's main file with ";;; --- " - Sprinkle a few ";;;###autoload"s. - Add a "Package-Requires:" (when needed). This is very straightforward and can be done from the very beginning of development. After that, something needs to create the *-pkg.el and *-autoloads.el files, but we know how to do it mechanically ("make" in elpa.git takes care of it, for example). So what's missing here I think is just some extra support to transparently do this "make" step (probably not with "make", of course) for those packages not installed via package.el. > In the case of this form, can you tell me how the package is poorly > packaged, or how this is overlapping with ELPA? I said "partly overlaps". So it doesn't all overlap (and in those parts that don't overlap, the correct/incorrect packaging is not relevant). > (use-package org-mode) > is useful since it gives performance data on start up that If I didn't consider use-package useful/interesting I wouldn't participate in this discussion. Stefan