From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [External] : A peek to the other side Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:46:31 -0500 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33614"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:C6wP1OUnz4d5gxN0xKtPcNuJpng= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 22 18:10:42 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYgT-0008e5-QC for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:10:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59744 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYgS-0006kp-FT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:10:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48892) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYJI-0007V8-HU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:46:47 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:56738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYJG-0002HU-MU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:46:44 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYJD-0005l1-Ab for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:46:39 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:136146 Archived-At: >> If you didn't you don't know how lucky you are with the integrated >> Elisp manual. It doesn't have an integrated manual, you have to browse >> a huge HTML file to find some API call... > The built-in help and thorough-going introspection of > Emacs and Elisp are in fact outgrowths from Lisp and > the Lisp community. Lisp has had this strength from > the outset. I don't know about the various forms of introspection, but at AFAIK (none of this is 100% sure, sadly) in the specific case of docstrings, this comes from TECO and I believe it was added to TECO by Richard while working on the TECO version of Emacs. > And RMS has always had a strong will to keep Emacs open and > self-aware/self-documenting. "Doc", in multiple senses, has always > been important to Emacs. While the GPL doesn't say anything about it, it's clear that's an important part of empowering users, so it's closely linked to the ideals of Free Software. [ In a sense, the source code of a program is a kind of documentation of the corresponding assembly generated by the compiler. ] > Unfortunately, there's been more of a tendency in > recent years to "name-claim" more things to be > "internal", as if that somehow protected something or > someone (Emacs development/developers? Elisp users?). Note the strong difference between the "--" naming convention to announce a function/var is internal, with the use of strong language abstraction to make internal inaccessible. Emacs is not in the business of preventing users from shooting themselves in the foot, but we do try to make it easier for the users not to shoot themselves in the foot, which is why we like to document with "--" when a function is intended to be internal. Stefan