From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Closures - do you understand them well? Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 17:51:22 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87lenh7vrn.fsf@web.de> <87tu25d77o.fsf@gnu.org> <87h6y5pt8k.fsf@web.de> <87bkodpqnk.fsf@web.de> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12429"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:2BSi0mDfHxpT138Kuf3zacsxx1I= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 08 23:52:07 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p3PkN-0002y4-GR for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:52:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3Pju-0000UT-3e; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 17:51:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3Pjs-0000UK-9o for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 17:51:36 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3Pjq-0006EY-Kq for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 17:51:36 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p3Pjo-0002EF-EK for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:51:32 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:141482 Archived-At: >> IMO `cl-loop` is too complex for its own good. > Maybe ... "Don't Loop, Iterate"? > https://iterate.common-lisp.dev/doc/index.html IMO it's still "too complex for its own good". > (Dunno what binding it uses in this context.) `iterate` explicitly defines those vars to use a single binding over the whole iteration (I suspect the same holds for `loop` as well, actually). IOW it's very fundamentally "imperative", where iteration variables are defined to be "uninitialized" at the beginning at are updated by side-effect during the course of the iteration. [ I tend to cringe at the idea of uninitialized variables. ] Stefan