From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Appending lists
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:35:35 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwv1r91jvjh.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: YMpvyuGZJRNgUL9Z@protected.localdomain
> To put a point across it would be better to announce or make a title
> that you don't talk how "variable never changes", but you talk about
> the structures in memory and somewhat interesting though practically
> within the spoken context useless information. What matters for
> programmer is that variable A instead of holding value 1 now has value
> 2, that is a change, and how that change was internally accomplished
> does not change the fact that A is now not 1 but is 2. (づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ
That's the problem with mutation.
In a language like Haskell where mutation is not allowed, when you have
x = [1, 2, 3]
then the value held in variable `x` is really a list of 3 elements.
But in a language like ELisp, when you have
(let ((x (list 1 2 3))) ...
the value held in variable `x` is not a list of 3 elements: it's really
nothing more than a reference to a location in memory holding a cons
cell (constraints in ELisp's type system ensure that this location in
memory will always hold a cons cell). The values held in the `car/cdr`
of that cons cell will depend on the current memory state, they are not
part of "the value held in `x`".
The vast majority of ELisp code never uses `setcar/setcdr`, tho, so we
tend to overlook this inconvenient truth and talk (and think) about
those values as if we were in the presence of immutable data.
That's why `nconc`, `nreverse`, `sort`, and other similar side-effecting
functions need to be used with a lot of care.
Stefan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-16 22:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-14 16:36 Appending lists Pierpaolo Bernardi
2021-06-14 16:40 ` henri-biard
2021-06-14 18:21 ` Alexandr Vityazev
2021-06-15 0:46 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-15 8:27 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-15 9:18 ` tomas
2021-06-16 1:11 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 7:28 ` tomas
2021-06-16 9:13 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 9:32 ` tomas
2021-06-16 10:55 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 16:44 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 18:00 ` Using Emacs for business Jean Louis
2021-06-16 22:59 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 23:39 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-17 0:16 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 7:09 ` Jean Louis
2021-07-06 3:22 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-06 20:23 ` Jean Louis
2021-07-06 20:41 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-07 0:18 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 9:19 ` Appending lists Jean Louis
2021-06-16 9:35 ` tomas
2021-06-16 10:57 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 16:55 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 11:16 ` Yuri Khan
2021-06-16 11:30 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 11:54 ` tomas
2021-06-16 17:31 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 23:13 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 23:41 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 13:01 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-06-16 16:59 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 17:36 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 18:54 ` tomas
2021-06-16 21:24 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-06-16 23:25 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 7:16 ` tomas
2021-06-17 7:14 ` tomas
2021-06-16 23:24 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 23:19 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 11:49 ` [OT] Underground (was: Appending lists) tomas
2021-06-19 0:10 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 16:54 ` Appending lists Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 18:49 ` tomas
2021-06-16 21:40 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-16 22:35 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor [this message]
2021-06-16 23:02 ` Jean Louis
2021-06-17 0:00 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 23:44 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 7:20 ` tomas
2021-06-16 23:39 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 23:31 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 14:22 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 15:11 ` tomas
2021-06-16 15:31 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 15:48 ` tomas
2021-06-16 23:04 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 2:41 ` [OFFTOPIC] " Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 6:09 ` Arthur Miller
2021-06-17 6:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-17 23:53 ` Arthur Miller
2021-06-18 14:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-19 0:04 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-19 1:20 ` Eduardo Ochs
2021-06-19 2:18 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-19 2:43 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-21 15:07 ` Arthur Miller
2021-06-17 7:51 ` tomas
2021-06-17 7:50 ` tomas
2021-06-18 23:47 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-19 2:35 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-19 6:52 ` tomas
2021-06-16 23:03 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 16:42 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 16:55 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-06-16 17:06 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-16 17:54 ` Drew Adams
2021-06-16 23:49 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 7:54 ` tomas
2021-06-17 12:41 ` [OFFTOPIC] " Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-17 14:19 ` tomas
2021-06-18 23:55 ` [External] : " Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-06-17 3:18 Drew Adams
2021-06-17 7:48 ` tomas
2021-06-18 23:38 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-18 23:50 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-19 6:57 ` tomas
2021-06-19 21:31 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-14 16:44 Pierpaolo Bernardi
2021-06-15 0:56 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-15 1:47 ` henri-biard
2021-06-15 7:09 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-06-14 16:24 Pierpaolo Bernardi
2021-06-14 16:32 ` henri-biard
2021-06-14 16:08 henri-biard
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