From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Espen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs keyboard Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:02:34 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <878v88h276.fsf@debian.lduros.net> <50E98D79.9060204@mousecar.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357509912 5701 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2013 22:05:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:05:12 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 06 23:05:29 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TryLQ-0004Eo-BJ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 23:05:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51102 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TryLA-000395-Sw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:05:12 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 91 Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="960b39603e44c0554faedf0065e3beaf"; logging-data="21185"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/XvJYfg1dQST66bI351hBI8yUk4O+FGn8=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:lkR7M2p02MtbDuiHgI3uFXxFJjw= sha1:qx3cUDLSJR5IBEF1i/Mub7aMziU= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:196180 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:88483 Archived-At: James Freer writes: > On Sun, 6 Jan 2013, ken wrote: > >> On 01/05/2013 04:05 AM James Freer wrote: >>> On Fri, 4 Jan 2013, Loic J. Duros wrote: >>> >>>> dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes: >>>> >>>>> Sun (er, oracle) makes that type of keyboard, but >>>>> also makes one with the control key immediately left >>>>> of the "A" key, where it was on the original >>>>> teletype-like machine (name escapes me now, but it >>>>> ended in "33"). >>>> >>>> What's the difference with moving the ctrl key to the caps lock key on a >>>> standard keyboard? >>>> http://emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey >>> >>> It's not a big difference... just preference - less far to stretch the >>> fingers. Capslock always used to be the location of the ctrl key on >>> early keyboards which happened to suit those that use the wordstar >>> keybindings (which are the most efficient in professional writers >>> opinion... and mine). A lot of emacs users like them swapped for emacs >>> bindings. Although i've got used to using the right ctrl key for >>> wordstar mode. >>> >>> james >> >> Amen (or +1 if you prefer) on both counts. Having learned to type >> on an actual typewriter and having started into computers with those >> old teletype machines, and then into PCs with DOS 1.0, I appreciate >> being able to have the Ctrl next to the 'A' key. That's where it >> was on the first PCs and where it stayed until, perhaps just >> coincidentally but perhaps not coincidentally, Microsoft came out >> with Word. At the time Wordstar was the top editor. But because >> using Wordstar entailed using the Ctrl key a lot, moving it to the >> keyboard's hinterlands made it difficult to use and it thereby lost >> a lot of market share to Word. Isn't it wonderful how a market >> economy can even rearrange your keyboard? >> >> The second Amen/+1 goes to Wordstar keybindings. Somebody put a >> whole lot of thought into them and made them the most intuitive of >> any editor of that time and since. You could easily learn how to >> move around all around in a file you were editing in under an hour >> and then remember all of the keybindings the next day. Most all the >> Wordstar keybindings for navigation were also language-independent; >> that is, you didn't have to know English for them to make sense and >> so be easily memorable. If I was just starting out in computing and >> wasn't already so accustomed to emacs keybindings, I'd definitely go >> to something like joe\jstar for an editor. > > Jstar when i'd discovered it was excellent for me. I started using > wordstar in the 80s... that's how old i am! But i use an editor for > text not coding... alas jstar doesn't have emacs "visual line mode" or > softwrap as some folk call it. Never tried it (or wanted it), but: http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?p=144 HOWTO make Emacs use soft word wrap like other editors! > All the graphical editors seem to and > so does vim with "set linebreak". Emacs also does 'hotch' (as i call > it - i think it's called 'mid screen cursor positioning' or something > like that) - one's typing and gets to the bottom of the > screen... automatically it moves up half a screen - that is so > useful. Not appreciated until you've used it. What Emacs does is completely customizable. You should not find this surprising. > Jstar does that but it's > a shame about the softwrap. The author is doing some development again > on Joe. > > Emacs does all so that's why i'll stick to it. I'd prefer a cut down > version or being able to remove ALL the functions from the menu i > don't want. The games and calculator... all that stuff i don't > want. But i'm still learning emacs... quite a lot of learning! I'd > love a basic word processor included... something that just does the > basics with an rtf file for letters and memos. I think you'll eventually find the menus can be modified. The best part of Emacs is the way it'll do just about anything. -- Dan Espen