More emacs instances

More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).

Often they're slow (gnus) and I want to keep them open all the time, so
my life could be also easier if they're separated.

But is also nice to be able to kill and yank from one instance to the
other one, how is that handled with different instances (for example on
osx 10.6).

And also how should I handle the different configuration?
If I use autoloads I could as well use the same conf, maybe using a
different desktop file which keeps open the gnus buffers and everything
I need...
Anyone already doing it?

Re: More emacs instances

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
> Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).
>
> Often they're slow (gnus) and I want to keep them open all the time, so
> my life could be also easier if they're separated.
>
> But is also nice to be able to kill and yank from one instance to the
> other one, how is that handled with different instances (for example on
> osx 10.6).
>
> And also how should I handle the different configuration?
> If I use autoloads I could as well use the same conf, maybe using a
> different desktop file which keeps open the gnus buffers and everything
> I need...
> Anyone already doing it?

You can write a different init file called for example
my-special-init-file.el, put what you want in it and start emacs like
that:

emacs -Q -l my-special-init-file.el


-- 
Thierry Volpiatto
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
> Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).
>
> Often they're slow (gnus) and I want to keep them open all the time, so
> my life could be also easier if they're separated.
>
> But is also nice to be able to kill and yank from one instance to the
> other one, how is that handled with different instances (for example on
> osx 10.6).
>
> And also how should I handle the different configuration?
> If I use autoloads I could as well use the same conf, maybe using a
> different desktop file which keeps open the gnus buffers and everything
> I need...
> Anyone already doing it?
>

I use different command line options to determine how the init
functions. More details can be found here :-

http://edward.oconnor.cx/2010/08/standalone-gnus

so, for example, in my (tmux hosted) "emacs -nw" that I keep my email
and erc open in, there is no emacs server started thus keeping it
separate from my normal "work" emacs..

Re: More emacs instances

[Gary]

Andrea Crotti wrote:

> I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
> Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).
(snip)
> Anyone already doing it?

I kind of have to. The "geben" debugger keeps ****ing on my emacs
instance if I don't (it's pretty painful to not be able to close a
buffer because some required function is suddenly undefined...).

I haven't done anything special yet - just start my normal (or as RR put
it "work" emacs) instance and then any others specifically as single
instances ('/usr/bin/emacs --no-desktop') as needed. I keep thinking I
should maintain different startup files, because loading unnecessary
config files just to run gnus, for example, makes it pretty slow to
start up, but my use cases aren't that defined yet - the only ones
really being geben and, occasionally, gnus, which I normally happily run
in my normal instance - and then I think about how painful it can be to
maintain *one* configuration and I am put off the idea :-) Also, a part
of me hates doing it at all, because I like having everything in one
place, that was the main reason I switched to emacs in the first place.

-- 
Gary
GNU Emacs 23.2.1
emacsclient 23.2
1.7.4(0.225/5/3) 2010-04-07 11:02 Cygwin

Re: More emacs instances

[Robert Marshall]

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Thierry Volpiatto wrote:

> Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
>> Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).
>>
>> Often they're slow (gnus) and I want to keep them open all the time,
>> so my life could be also easier if they're separated.
>>
>> But is also nice to be able to kill and yank from one instance to the
>> other one, how is that handled with different instances (for example
>> on osx 10.6).
>>
>> And also how should I handle the different configuration?  If I use
>> autoloads I could as well use the same conf, maybe using a different
>> desktop file which keeps open the gnus buffers and everything I
>> need...  Anyone already doing it?
> 
> You can write a different init file called for example
> my-special-init-file.el, put what you want in it and start emacs like
> that:
> 
> emacs -Q -l my-special-init-file.el
> 

Or, to keep your .emacs together, I use -name off the command line and
then set a variable in .emacs according to its value (or not!)

Robert
-- 
La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/

RE: More emacs instances

[Drew Adams]

> But is also nice to be able to kill and yank from one instance to the
> other one, how is that handled with different instances (for 
> example on osx 10.6).

We have always been able to copy/kill/yank from one Emacs session to another,
even when the sessions run different Emacs versions. I cannot speak for OSX
10.6, but this has always been true on other platforms, AFAIK.

However, at least on Windows, this important feature has been broken recently by
some of the selection changes they've made in the development version (Emacs
24).  Hopefully this change is considered a bug that will soon be fixed, rather
than a "feature".  See for example bug #6689.

Re: More emacs instances

[Memnon Anon]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
> Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).
>
> Often they're slow (gnus) and I want to keep them open all the time, so
> my life could be also easier if they're separated.
[...]

Hi,

I know that alot of people actually use this solution (different
instances of emacs).

I however really prefer to work in just one instance (with different
frames from time to time) and rather "fix" the parts that make emacs
feel unresponsive.

Here are some of the solutions I came up with:

  Mail:    msmtp+fetchmail
  News:    leafnode [you know gmane, right?!]
  IRC etc: bitlbee

I have a decent, but really not 'state of the art' machine (Pentium III,
1.2 Mhz,512 Mb Ram), but with these external helpers, emacs performs
flawlessly. 

Memnon
  
  

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> writes:

>
> Hi,
>
> I know that alot of people actually use this solution (different
> instances of emacs).
>
> I however really prefer to work in just one instance (with different
> frames from time to time) and rather "fix" the parts that make emacs
> feel unresponsive.
>
> Here are some of the solutions I came up with:
>
>   Mail:    msmtp+fetchmail
>   News:    leafnode [you know gmane, right?!]
>   IRC etc: bitlbee
>
> I have a decent, but really not 'state of the art' machine (Pentium III,
> 1.2 Mhz,512 Mb Ram), but with these external helpers, emacs performs
> flawlessly. 
>
> Memnon
>   
>   

Ah yes I like this solution also and yes sure I know gmane, I'm using
it also now.
Even though I'm still not able to use it very well.
On many mailing lists it doesn't I can't post even if I'm subscribed...

And I also use fetchmail for some servers and I like it a lot.
Would you have an example of this configuration (even in private)?

Thanks a lot

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I know that alot of people actually use this solution (different
>> instances of emacs).
>>
>> I however really prefer to work in just one instance (with different
>> frames from time to time) and rather "fix" the parts that make emacs
>> feel unresponsive.
>>
>> Here are some of the solutions I came up with:
>>
>>   Mail:    msmtp+fetchmail
>>   News:    leafnode [you know gmane, right?!]
>>   IRC etc: bitlbee
>>
>> I have a decent, but really not 'state of the art' machine (Pentium III,
>> 1.2 Mhz,512 Mb Ram), but with these external helpers, emacs performs
>> flawlessly. 
>>
>> Memnon
>>   
>>   
>
> Ah yes I like this solution also and yes sure I know gmane, I'm using
> it also now.
> Even though I'm still not able to use it very well.
> On many mailing lists it doesn't I can't post even if I'm subscribed...
>
> And I also use fetchmail for some servers and I like it a lot.
> Would you have an example of this configuration (even in private)?
>
> Thanks a lot
>

I used to prefer getmail.

I had a small cronjob which calls this:-

,----
| #!/bin/bash
| host=$(hostname)
| mailserver="hermes.servername.net"
| if [ $host != "hermes.servername.net" ]
| then
|     echo "Doing remote call to mailserver $mailserver"
|     ssh $mailserver /home/shamrock/bin/getmails
|     exit
| fi
| 
| cmd="getmail -l -a -q"
| 
| for file in ~/.getmail/*.rc; do
|     cmd="$cmd --rcfile $file "
| done
| 
| $cmd
`----

man getmail for the account rc file formats.

But then I discovered offlineimap. Now I run offlineimap every ten
minutes or so which stores imap email from gmail into local maildirs and
I connect gnus directly to them. Fast and efficient. And easily
"cloneable" on my laptops.

This article proved useful :-

http://pbrisbin.com:8080/pages/mutt2.html

Re: More emacs instances

[Memnon Anon]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:
> Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> writes:
[...]
>> I however really prefer to work in just one instance (with different
>> frames from time to time) and rather "fix" the parts that make emacs
>> feel unresponsive.
[...]
> Ah yes I like this solution also and yes sure I know gmane, I'm using
> it also now.
> Even though I'm still not able to use it very well.
> On many mailing lists it doesn't I can't post even if I'm subscribed...
> And I also use fetchmail for some servers and I like it a lot.

Having leafnode, i.e. a small local newsserver, made gnus much faster 
for me; I am not sure if it is there on osx, though.

However, this is OT here, so if you have specific questions, lets go to
the gnus ml.

> Would you have an example of this configuration (even in private)?

Sure, I can give you anything I have in private.
However, although this is working for me, I am (most of the time) not
sure if I do "the right thing", so keeping it on list would be my
preferred way of interaction, so others can opt in and correct any
mistakes etc.

Memnon

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
> ,----
> | #!/bin/bash
> | host=$(hostname)
> | mailserver="hermes.servername.net"
> | if [ $host != "hermes.servername.net" ]
> | then
> |     echo "Doing remote call to mailserver $mailserver"
> |     ssh $mailserver /home/shamrock/bin/getmails
> |     exit
> | fi
> | 
> | cmd="getmail -l -a -q"
> | 
> | for file in ~/.getmail/*.rc; do
> |     cmd="$cmd --rcfile $file "
> | done
> | 
> | $cmd
> `----
>
> man getmail for the account rc file formats.
>
> But then I discovered offlineimap. Now I run offlineimap every ten
> minutes or so which stores imap email from gmail into local maildirs and
> I connect gnus directly to them. Fast and efficient. And easily
> "cloneable" on my laptops.
>
> This article proved useful :-
>
> http://pbrisbin.com:8080/pages/mutt2.html

Why getmail over fetchmail?
Anyway also the imapsync is a great idea, I forgot about that.
Nice about fetchmail was to pass stuff to procmail to filter
automatically, can you do the same thing when you already have the imap
cloned?

It's much easier for cloning over laptops that's true...

Re: More emacs instances

[Memnon Anon]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:

> But then I discovered offlineimap. Now I run offlineimap every ten
> minutes or so which stores imap email from gmail into local maildirs and
> I connect gnus directly to them. Fast and efficient. And easily
> "cloneable" on my laptops.

I never used Imap; I grew up and my mail was on my machine, and there
only, and I never found a reason to change this, so smtp/pop3 it is for me.

[Richard Riley in Message-ID: <i43d0f$ia8$1@dough.gmane.org>]
>so, for example, in my (tmux hosted) "emacs -nw" that I keep my email
>and erc open in, there is no emacs server started thus keeping it
>separate from my normal "work" emacs..
[and a link to an article with this]
,----[ http://edward.oconnor.cx/2010/08/standalone-gnus ]
| Gnus is an awesome mail and news reader, but it can be a bit of a performance
| bear, especially when using IMAP. Since Emacs is single-threaded, IMAP
| operations that take too long can disconnect you from IRC, Jabber, or any number
| of other network services you also use from Emacs.
`----

But if offlineimap is 'Fast and efficient', you do not run special emacs
instance for mail and irc because of speed issues, right?
Is it just a habbit?

Memnon

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> ,----
>> | #!/bin/bash
>> | host=$(hostname)
>> | mailserver="hermes.servername.net"
>> | if [ $host != "hermes.servername.net" ]
>> | then
>> |     echo "Doing remote call to mailserver $mailserver"
>> |     ssh $mailserver /home/shamrock/bin/getmails
>> |     exit
>> | fi
>> | 
>> | cmd="getmail -l -a -q"
>> | 
>> | for file in ~/.getmail/*.rc; do
>> |     cmd="$cmd --rcfile $file "
>> | done
>> | 
>> | $cmd
>> `----
>>
>> man getmail for the account rc file formats.
>>
>> But then I discovered offlineimap. Now I run offlineimap every ten
>> minutes or so which stores imap email from gmail into local maildirs and
>> I connect gnus directly to them. Fast and efficient. And easily
>> "cloneable" on my laptops.
>>
>> This article proved useful :-
>>
>> http://pbrisbin.com:8080/pages/mutt2.html
>
> Why getmail over fetchmail?

You know, I can't remember. Possibly easier to configure or better with
IMAP? I really dont recall! But I listed it as a "heads up".

> Anyway also the imapsync is a great idea, I forgot about that.

offlineimap

> Nice about fetchmail was to pass stuff to procmail to filter
> automatically, can you do the same thing when you already have the imap
> cloned?

You can use gnus splitting if you like. I used to prefer that since its
all self contained in gnus then.

That said I recently decided that, the devil you know, just to use gmail
filters configured via their web UI. I apply labels to emails e.g
"emacs-gnus" and then see them as separate IMAP folders (eg I see an
IMAP folder called "emacs-gnus") courtesy of offlineimap.

>
> It's much easier for cloning over laptops that's true...

Yup.

I did have local dovecot imap servers for a while, but I got confused
with multiple gmail account setup and so decided to keep it
simple. Also, the benefit of having local maildir is the wonderful
Mairix for indexing and searching!

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> But then I discovered offlineimap. Now I run offlineimap every ten
>> minutes or so which stores imap email from gmail into local maildirs and
>> I connect gnus directly to them. Fast and efficient. And easily
>> "cloneable" on my laptops.
>
> I never used Imap; I grew up and my mail was on my machine, and there
> only, and I never found a reason to change this, so smtp/pop3 it is
> for me.

My email is on my machine too. Offlineimap puts it there in the same way
you get it using pop3. The difference is imap is infinitely superior. Of
course I still use smtp via msmtp to send via my gmail accounts.

>
> [Richard Riley in Message-ID: <i43d0f$ia8$1@dough.gmane.org>]
>>so, for example, in my (tmux hosted) "emacs -nw" that I keep my email
>>and erc open in, there is no emacs server started thus keeping it
>>separate from my normal "work" emacs..
> [and a link to an article with this]
> ,----[ http://edward.oconnor.cx/2010/08/standalone-gnus ]
> | Gnus is an awesome mail and news reader, but it can be a bit of a performance
> | bear, especially when using IMAP. Since Emacs is single-threaded,
> IMAP

Remember my Gnus is NOT using Imap. It uses maildir which in turn is
populated by offlineimap.

> | operations that take too long can disconnect you from IRC, Jabber, or any number
> | of other network services you also use from Emacs.
> `----
>
> But if offlineimap is 'Fast and efficient', you do not run special emacs
> instance for mail and irc because of speed issues, right?
> Is it just a habbit?
>
> Memnon
>

Its to keep it separate from my main emacs instance which frequently
needs restarting.

I used to use a single daemon but find it freezes that little too much -
not often but enough to make me want a separate email instance. Also I
like to keep my gnus/erc or irssi hidden away (detach tmux) so I dont
get too trigger happy ;)

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:

>
> You can use gnus splitting if you like. I used to prefer that since its
> all self contained in gnus then.
>
> That said I recently decided that, the devil you know, just to use gmail
> filters configured via their web UI. I apply labels to emails e.g
> "emacs-gnus" and then see them as separate IMAP folders (eg I see an
> IMAP folder called "emacs-gnus") courtesy of offlineimap.
>

That's also an option right, labels are nice.
I think procmail is really powerful though, even if it can be trickier
to get it right.
>
> Yup.
>
> I did have local dovecot imap servers for a while, but I got confused
> with multiple gmail account setup and so decided to keep it
> simple. Also, the benefit of having local maildir is the wonderful
> Mairix for indexing and searching!

Well but then you can only access to the mails with the clients that can
manipulate directly with Maildir format, and by the way during the time
you're not syncing you don't see the new emails right?

Is it gnus stable and fast on working on it?
I trust more servers somehow...

Is it offlineimap much slower than fetchmail that we have to run it much
less often?

Re: More emacs instances

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:17:57 +0200 Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> wrote: 

AC> Ah yes I like this solution also and yes sure I know gmane, I'm
AC> using it also now.  Even though I'm still not able to use it very
AC> well.  On many mailing lists it doesn't I can't post even if I'm
AC> subscribed...

You can ask on the gmane.discuss newsgroup but for me at least posting
has always worked.  Maybe you're blocking the GMane autoresponder that
verifies your address?

Ted

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:

> Remember my Gnus is NOT using Imap. It uses maildir which in turn is
> populated by offlineimap.
>
> Its to keep it separate from my main emacs instance which frequently
> needs restarting.
>
> I used to use a single daemon but find it freezes that little too much -
> not often but enough to make me want a separate email instance. Also I
> like to keep my gnus/erc or irssi hidden away (detach tmux) so I dont
> get too trigger happy ;)

What does "detach tmux" mean exactly?

And how much can I trust Gnus manipulating my Maildir?
Isn't it a server more reliable in general?

I'm also trying hard to finally have this kind of separation working,
and until now I was able to configure bitlbee with erc very nicely.

I think I will have different instances *but* with the same
configuration.
I could just use a different desktop file for the other instane and
everything would work great.

Now I have for example
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
  (defun bitlbee ()
    "connect to bitlbee"
    (interactive)
    (select-frame (make-frame))
    (erc :server "localhost" :port "6667" :nick "andrea"))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Remember my Gnus is NOT using Imap. It uses maildir which in turn is
>> populated by offlineimap.
>>
>> Its to keep it separate from my main emacs instance which frequently
>> needs restarting.
>>
>> I used to use a single daemon but find it freezes that little too much -
>> not often but enough to make me want a separate email instance. Also I
>> like to keep my gnus/erc or irssi hidden away (detach tmux) so I dont
>> get too trigger happy ;)
>
> What does "detach tmux" mean exactly?

http://www.google.com/search?q=detach+tmux

you can detach (vanishes) and later reattach. Its one of the main
reasons for screen/tmux. The ability to attach/detach from a
session. particularly useful for when you ssh in from abroad and just
reattach to see your email etc.


>
> And how much can I trust Gnus manipulating my Maildir?
> Isn't it a server more reliable in general?

I dont know how much you can trust it. I trust it implicitly as I have
been using it without issue for a while.

>
> I'm also trying hard to finally have this kind of separation working,
> and until now I was able to configure bitlbee with erc very nicely.
>
> I think I will have different instances *but* with the same
> configuration.
> I could just use a different desktop file for the other instane and
> everything would work great.
>
> Now I have for example
>
>
> Now I have for example
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>   (defun bitlbee ()
>     "connect to bitlbee"
>     (interactive)
>     (select-frame (make-frame))
>     (erc :server "localhost" :port "6667" :nick "andrea"))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>

I open the bitlbee server as I do freenode and they all live happily in
the same frame. erc then handles chats with gtalk etc (via bitlbee) as
it does all standard #irc channels.

Re: More emacs instances

[Gary]

Drew Adams wrote:
>> But is also nice to be able to kill and yank from one instance to the
>> other one, how is that handled with different instances (for 
>> example on osx 10.6).
>
> We have always been able to copy/kill/yank from one Emacs session to another,
> even when the sessions run different Emacs versions. I cannot speak for OSX
> 10.6, but this has always been true on other platforms, AFAIK.

That may be true to an extent, but you can't do this between, say, a
cygwin instance and a W32 instance. It's not a big deal (you can still
copy/paste using the Windows clipboard), but kind of annoying when you
first run across it.

-- 
Gary
GNU Emacs 23.2.1
emacsclient 23.2
1.7.4(0.225/5/3) 2010-04-07 11:02 Cygwin

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
> I dont know how much you can trust it. I trust it implicitly as I have
> been using it without issue for a while.

I'm also trying now, offlineimap is not so fast as I thought (well
enough of course) but it's pretty cool.
I should get used to gnus as mail program, and maybe I would better
separate news reading from normal email.

There are many other packages (mew wanderlust for example), any advice?
I also need to integrate it with the mac address book for example, (use
contacts command already).
>
> I open the bitlbee server as I do freenode and they all live happily in
> the same frame. erc then handles chats with gtalk etc (via bitlbee) as
> it does all standard #irc channels.

Yes I also noticed it can do many things and already configured them.
The thing is that I'm used to see very easily who's online and from
how simply by colors, this interface is a much more poor...

Maybe it's time to use my growl integration function ;)

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> I dont know how much you can trust it. I trust it implicitly as I have
>> been using it without issue for a while.
>
> I'm also trying now, offlineimap is not so fast as I thought (well
> enough of course) but it's pretty cool.
> I should get used to gnus as mail program, and maybe I would better
> separate news reading from normal email.

The point of using gnus is bring them closer together.  I like it all
being in one UI. And the emacs one at that.

Use gnus-posting-styles for your different nicks/email addresses
relevant to the groups you are reading.

Use gnus topics for logical separation.

Use msmtp for posting emails from different smtp servers.

>
> There are many other packages (mew wanderlust for example), any advice?
> I also need to integrate it with the mac address book for example, (use
> contacts command already).

>>
>> I open the bitlbee server as I do freenode and they all live happily in
>> the same frame. erc then handles chats with gtalk etc (via bitlbee) as
>> it does all standard #irc channels.
>
> Yes I also noticed it can do many things and already configured them.
> The thing is that I'm used to see very easily who's online and from
> how simply by colors, this interface is a much more poor...
>
> Maybe it's time to use my growl integration function ;)
>

Bitlbee tells you whose online for gtalk anyway : blist. Admittedly
automagically. But I'm sure there are other panel type apps which can do
that.

Re: More emacs instances

[Memnon Anon]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
> Use gnus-posting-styles for your different nicks/email addresses
> relevant to the groups you are reading.

Alternativley, there is gnus-pers:

               http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusPers

>> Yes I also noticed it can do many things and already configured them.
>> The thing is that I'm used to see very easily who's online and from
>> how simply by colors, this interface is a much more poor...
>>
>> Maybe it's time to use my growl integration function ;)

erc is very flexible.
Aside from blist, blist all, blist online, I use erc-pals for people I
want to be notified when they are around. Together with matching,
keywords and different hooks, I now have a setup like this:

a) When one of my pals joins, my thinklight blinks. I can switch to the 
   buffer quickly with C-c C-SPC and back with the same key combo.

b) When a special keyword is said, the thinklight turns on permanently
   and a sound is triggered (all my pals know they should use it *only*
   if it is important! Sound notification can be *really* distracting
   when it happens all the time.)

c) When I am afk (x minutes no emacs activity, which usually means I am
   nearby, but not at my keyboard), sound and thinklight make me aware
   of private messages by anyone, not only pals.

However, these 'notifications' are of course disabled when I am
watching the bitlbee buffer (except b: I wanted a way my friends can
"shout" at me that always works.)

If there is no thinklight, or its use is too distracting, one can always
use e.g. the NumLock LED on the keyboard instead.

I am still fiddling with this setup, but it already provides me with a
flexibility other IM programms I used did not offer.

Memnon

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> writes:
>
> erc is very flexible.
> Aside from blist, blist all, blist online, I use erc-pals for people I
> want to be notified when they are around. Together with matching,
> keywords and different hooks, I now have a setup like this:
>
> a) When one of my pals joins, my thinklight blinks. I can switch to the 
>    buffer quickly with C-c C-SPC and back with the same key combo.
>
> b) When a special keyword is said, the thinklight turns on permanently
>    and a sound is triggered (all my pals know they should use it *only*
>    if it is important! Sound notification can be *really* distracting
>    when it happens all the time.)
>
> c) When I am afk (x minutes no emacs activity, which usually means I am
>    nearby, but not at my keyboard), sound and thinklight make me aware
>    of private messages by anyone, not only pals.
>
> However, these 'notifications' are of course disabled when I am
> watching the bitlbee buffer (except b: I wanted a way my friends can
> "shout" at me that always works.)
>
> If there is no thinklight, or its use is too distracting, one can always
> use e.g. the NumLock LED on the keyboard instead.
>
> I am still fiddling with this setup, but it already provides me with a
> flexibility other IM programms I used did not offer.
>
> Memnon

That's alreay great!
Do you have your configuration online somewhere maybe?

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:

>
> The point of using gnus is bring them closer together.  I like it all
> being in one UI. And the emacs one at that.
>
> Use gnus-posting-styles for your different nicks/email addresses
> relevant to the groups you are reading.
>
> Use gnus topics for logical separation.
>
> Use msmtp for posting emails from different smtp servers.

Yes I have to learn better how to use topics and so on, if you have some
working examples it would be great...

The other "problem" is that apart from the main imap address, I have
another old imap and 3 more pop3 mails.

What I would like would be, aggregate everything in the main imap, but
marking the original destinatioon address in every message.

So that when I answer to someone I answer with the right address and
hopefully via the right smtp server (well that's relatively important).

Could anything like this work?

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>
>> The point of using gnus is bring them closer together.  I like it all
>> being in one UI. And the emacs one at that.
>>
>> Use gnus-posting-styles for your different nicks/email addresses
>> relevant to the groups you are reading.
>>
>> Use gnus topics for logical separation.
>>
>> Use msmtp for posting emails from different smtp servers.
>
> Yes I have to learn better how to use topics and so on, if you have some
> working examples it would be great...

They are well explained in the gnus manual. Very easy.

>
> The other "problem" is that apart from the main imap address, I have
> another old imap and 3 more pop3 mails.

This isnt a problem. Each one is a different
gnus-secondary-select-method.

>
> What I would like would be, aggregate everything in the main imap, but
> marking the original destinatioon address in every message.

I dont really understand what you mean. Some smtp servers (gmail being
one) dont allow you to send from your authenticated smtp using a
different name. Hence msmtp.

>
> So that when I answer to someone I answer with the right address and

gnus-posting-styles.

http://nntp.gnus.org/gnus/manual/gnus_153.html

> hopefully via the right smtp server (well that's relatively important).
>
> Could anything like this work?
>

msmtp. There are examples on the emacs wiki and in google land.

Here is my setup (somewhat sloppy) :-

,----
| (defun msmtp-account (&optional def)
|   (let* ((from
|           (save-restriction    
|             (message-narrow-to-headers)
|             (message-fetch-field "From")))
|          (account (if from (catch 'match
|                              (dolist (element msmtp-name-list)
|                                ;; (message (format "smpt chosen is %s"
|   element))
|                                (when (string-match (format ".*%s.*"
|   element) from)
|                                  (throw 'match element)))) nil)))
|     (if account account (if def def "default"))))
| 
| (defun msmtp-change-smtp ()
|   
|   (setq sendmail-program "/usr/bin/msmtp")
|   (setq message-sendmail-envelope-from 'header)
|   
|   (if (message-mail-p)
|       (setq message-sendmail-extra-arguments (list "-a" (msmtp-account
|       "default")))))
| 
| (add-hook 'message-send-hook 'msmtp-change-smtp)
`----

And you add the msmtp accounts to msmtp-name-list which match the config
sections in your .msmtprc something like this

,----
| defaults
| host smtp.gmail.com
| port 587
| auth on
| tls on
| tls_certcheck off
| logfile /tmp/msmtp.log
| 
| account riley
| user rileyrg@googlemail.com
| password ***********
| from rileyrg@googlemail.com
| 
| account richardriley
| host smtp.richardriley.net
| port 25
| user rgr
| password **********
| from rgr@richardriley.com
`----

And the setting of msmtp-name-list

,----
| (defvar msmtp-name-list '("root" "richardriley"))
| 
| (add-to-list 'msmtp-name-list "riley" t)
`----

Probably one element in the list for each gnus select method.

Enough to get you started ... it tooks me ages to get this all working
way back when..

It's all manpages and experiment from there  on in .. ;)

r.

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:

>
> This isnt a problem. Each one is a different
> gnus-secondary-select-method.
>

Yes that's clear.
But the power of offlineimap is that I would be able to clone only one
Maildir with everything inside.
If I don't do that and want to write from other clients than I have to
clone the gnus state, which is a bit harder than just one Maildir

So I should bounce every mail I get to the imap account and the manage
everything from there to make it work.

I'm even wondering if it would not be better to have a dovecot running,
and create a big imap with all my accounts (without the redirection
then).

In this way I can even remove my mails from gmail and synchronize that
account with other clients.

I could have two advantages:
- don't leave on their servers my stuff
- make it as bigger as I want

> I dont really understand what you mean. Some smtp servers (gmail being
> one) dont allow you to send from your authenticated smtp using a
> different name. Hence msmtp.

Ah I didn't know that, but I was quite sure that a few times when using
one other smtp didn't work I used gmail as smtp, and it worked anyway.

Thanks a lot!

Re: More emacs instances

[Richard Riley]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>
>> This isnt a problem. Each one is a different
>> gnus-secondary-select-method.
>>
>
> Yes that's clear.
> But the power of offlineimap is that I would be able to clone only one
> Maildir with everything inside.

I dont see how that is the power. You can clone multiple accounts with
offlineimap.

> If I don't do that and want to write from other clients than I have to
> clone the gnus state, which is a bit harder than just one Maildir

No you dont. The other clients offlineimap too from the original imap
sources. You dont just clone or copy the maildir.

I see with pop3 there might be an issue. But most providers do IMAP.

>
> So I should bounce every mail I get to the imap account and the manage
> everything from there to make it work.
>
> I'm even wondering if it would not be better to have a dovecot running,
> and create a big imap with all my accounts (without the redirection
> then).
>
> In this way I can even remove my mails from gmail and synchronize that
> account with other clients.

Let say you have 3 email accounts out there on the intertubes. Configure
offlineimap to sync with a local maildir for each account and copy that
config (.offlineimaprc) to each client. Each client does its OWN
offlineimap. Well, thats how my setup works and it seems fine.

Here is my .offlineimaprc to give you an idea

,----
| [general]
| accounts = riley,shamrock,friends
| ui = Noninteractive.Quiet
| maxconnections = 5
| maxsyncaccounts = 5
| realdelete = no
| autorefresh = 0 
| quick = 0
| 
| [Account riley]
| localrepository = rileyLocal
| remoterepository = rileyIMAP
| 
| [Repository rileyLocal]
| type=Maildir
| localfolders = ~/.Maildir/.riley
| 
| [Repository rileyIMAP]
| type = Gmail
| remotehost = imap.gmail.com
| remoteuser = rileyrg@googlemail.com
| remotepass = **
| 
| [Account shamrock]
| localrepository = shamrockLocal
| remoterepository = shamrockIMAP
| 
| [Repository shamrockLocal]
| type=Maildir
| localfolders = ~/.Maildir/.shamrock
| 
| [Repository shamrockIMAP]
| type = Gmail
| remotehost = imap.gmail.com
| remoteuser = shamrockirishbar@googlemail.com
| remotepass = **
| 
| [Account friends]
| localrepository = friendsLocal
| remoterepository = friendsIMAP
| 
| [Repository friendsLocal]
| type=Maildir
| localfolders = ~/.Maildir/.friends
| 
| [Repository friendsIMAP]
| type = Gmail
| remotehost = imap.gmail.com
| remoteuser = example1@googlemail.com
| remotepass = **
`----



>
> I could have two advantages:
> - don't leave on their servers my stuff
> - make it as bigger as I want

You want to leave it on their servers : its a failsafe then.

>
>> I dont really understand what you mean. Some smtp servers (gmail being
>> one) dont allow you to send from your authenticated smtp using a
>> different name. Hence msmtp.
>
> Ah I didn't know that, but I was quite sure that a few times when using
> one other smtp didn't work I used gmail as smtp, and it worked anyway.

It would work but it attaches your gmail id you used to authenticate to
the smtp server in the "from". Or it used to.

>
> Thanks a lot!

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>
> I dont see how that is the power. You can clone multiple accounts with
> offlineimap.

Sure but I would finally like to concentrate all my mails in one and
organize things for subject, not origin.

> No you dont. The other clients offlineimap too from the original imap
> sources. You dont just clone or copy the maildir.
>
> I see with pop3 there might be an issue. But most providers do IMAP.
>

What I think I will do, already tried and it works is something like
this
- fetchmail fetches mails from my pop3 accounts
- pass them to procmail which has some rules that, for each possible
  account, write the mail in the correct imap folder

It works perfectly apparently, the only problem is that those mails I
get then when I use offlineimap again are not propagated to gmail.

>
> Let say you have 3 email accounts out there on the intertubes. Configure
> offlineimap to sync with a local maildir for each account and copy that
> config (.offlineimaprc) to each client. Each client does its OWN
> offlineimap. Well, thats how my setup works and it seems fine.
>
> Here is my .offlineimaprc to give you an idea

Yes thanks a lot I got that, but I'm not sure is what I want as written above.
>
> You want to leave it on their servers : its a failsafe then.

Maybe, but does it make sense that mails with personal and sensible data
are stored on a server which gives the service for free?
Another possibility is to keep a folder with more sensible stuff and
make those mails be removed automatically, don't know how yet...

It's not being paranoid trying to be cautious in my opinion.
>
> It would work but it attaches your gmail id you used to authenticate to
> the smtp server in the "from". Or it used to.
>

Ah ok never noticed..

Re: More emacs instances

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On Tue, Aug 17 2010, Richard Riley wrote:

> Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>>
>>> This isnt a problem. Each one is a different
>>> gnus-secondary-select-method.
>>>
>>
>> Yes that's clear.
>> But the power of offlineimap is that I would be able to clone only one
>> Maildir with everything inside.
>
> I dont see how that is the power. You can clone multiple accounts with
> offlineimap.

I know this topic is straying a bit and perhaps should be on the gnus
list, but since we're talking about it…

I am using gmail POP and want to switch to IMAP, using offlineimap.
Since I've been deleting mails from the server under POP usage, I've
only got the most recent month or so of mail on the gmail servers.

Now if I switch to a setup where gnus and offlineimap use the same
maildir for their mail, that means my old messages will be deleted (or
at least can't be stored in that maildir) when I switch to IMAP, right?
But if offlineimap populates a maildir, and gnus uses it as a mail
source to slurp up its messages, does that mean that from here on out
I'll have two copies of all my mail: offlineimap's maildir, and gnus'
group folders? Is it possible to delete the retrieved messages from
offlineimap's maildir, without confusing offlineimap?

I hope this makes sense! I'm sure there's a simple solution, and I'll be
backing up thoroughly before I mess with it, but I'd love to hear how
this works for other people…

Thanks!
Eric 

>
>> If I don't do that and want to write from other clients than I have to
>> clone the gnus state, which is a bit harder than just one Maildir
>
> No you dont. The other clients offlineimap too from the original imap
> sources. You dont just clone or copy the maildir.
>
> I see with pop3 there might be an issue. But most providers do IMAP.
>
>>
>> So I should bounce every mail I get to the imap account and the manage
>> everything from there to make it work.
>>
>> I'm even wondering if it would not be better to have a dovecot running,
>> and create a big imap with all my accounts (without the redirection
>> then).
>>
>> In this way I can even remove my mails from gmail and synchronize that
>> account with other clients.
>
> Let say you have 3 email accounts out there on the intertubes. Configure
> offlineimap to sync with a local maildir for each account and copy that
> config (.offlineimaprc) to each client. Each client does its OWN
> offlineimap. Well, thats how my setup works and it seems fine.
>
> Here is my .offlineimaprc to give you an idea
>
> ,----
> | [general]
> | accounts = riley,shamrock,friends
> | ui = Noninteractive.Quiet
> | maxconnections = 5
> | maxsyncaccounts = 5
> | realdelete = no
> | autorefresh = 0 
> | quick = 0
> | 
> | [Account riley]
> | localrepository = rileyLocal
> | remoterepository = rileyIMAP
> | 
> | [Repository rileyLocal]
> | type=Maildir
> | localfolders = ~/.Maildir/.riley
> | 
> | [Repository rileyIMAP]
> | type = Gmail
> | remotehost = imap.gmail.com
> | remoteuser = rileyrg@googlemail.com
> | remotepass = **
> | 
> | [Account shamrock]
> | localrepository = shamrockLocal
> | remoterepository = shamrockIMAP
> | 
> | [Repository shamrockLocal]
> | type=Maildir
> | localfolders = ~/.Maildir/.shamrock
> | 
> | [Repository shamrockIMAP]
> | type = Gmail
> | remotehost = imap.gmail.com
> | remoteuser = shamrockirishbar@googlemail.com
> | remotepass = **
> | 
> | [Account friends]
> | localrepository = friendsLocal
> | remoterepository = friendsIMAP
> | 
> | [Repository friendsLocal]
> | type=Maildir
> | localfolders = ~/.Maildir/.friends
> | 
> | [Repository friendsIMAP]
> | type = Gmail
> | remotehost = imap.gmail.com
> | remoteuser = example1@googlemail.com
> | remotepass = **
> `----
>
>
>
>>
>> I could have two advantages:
>> - don't leave on their servers my stuff
>> - make it as bigger as I want
>
> You want to leave it on their servers : its a failsafe then.
>
>>
>>> I dont really understand what you mean. Some smtp servers (gmail being
>>> one) dont allow you to send from your authenticated smtp using a
>>> different name. Hence msmtp.
>>
>> Ah I didn't know that, but I was quite sure that a few times when using
>> one other smtp didn't work I used gmail as smtp, and it worked anyway.
>
> It would work but it attaches your gmail id you used to authenticate to
> the smtp server in the "from". Or it used to.
>
>>
>> Thanks a lot!

Re: More emacs instances

[Memnon Anon]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> That's alreay great!
> Do you have your configuration online somewhere maybe?

The link is on my emacswiki homepage:
    
     http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Memnon_Anon

Memnon 

(If you have any question, just ask :)

Re: More emacs instances

[Andrea Crotti]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

>
> I know this topic is straying a bit and perhaps should be on the gnus
> list, but since we're talking about it…
>
> I am using gmail POP and want to switch to IMAP, using offlineimap.
> Since I've been deleting mails from the server under POP usage, I've
> only got the most recent month or so of mail on the gmail servers.
>
> Now if I switch to a setup where gnus and offlineimap use the same
> maildir for their mail, that means my old messages will be deleted (or
> at least can't be stored in that maildir) when I switch to IMAP, right?
> But if offlineimap populates a maildir, and gnus uses it as a mail
> source to slurp up its messages, does that mean that from here on out
> I'll have two copies of all my mail: offlineimap's maildir, and gnus'
> group folders? Is it possible to delete the retrieved messages from
> offlineimap's maildir, without confusing offlineimap?
>
> I hope this makes sense! I'm sure there's a simple solution, and I'll be
> backing up thoroughly before I mess with it, but I'd love to hear how
> this works for other people…
>
> Thanks!
> Eric 
>


Mm I don't see why you would have two copies, if offlineimap is
bidirectional and if gnus is not behaving too crazily the changes you do
to your Maildir will be also written on the remote imap server.

Is that correct?
Another way is to have an imap server running locally on the machine and
that should be even easier...

Re: More emacs instances

[Stefan Monnier]

> Mm I don't see why you would have two copies, if offlineimap is
> bidirectional and if gnus is not behaving too crazily the changes you do
> to your Maildir will be also written on the remote imap server.
> Is that correct?

IIUC the assumption "if gnus is not behaving too crazily" is not quite
warranted: more specially, I think it does not save the state of
messages in the standard Maildir way.  Instead, it's saved in
a Gnus-specific file.


        Stefan

Re: More emacs instances

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On Tue, Sep 07 2010, Andrea Crotti wrote:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>>
>> I know this topic is straying a bit and perhaps should be on the gnus
>> list, but since we're talking about it…
>>
>> I am using gmail POP and want to switch to IMAP, using offlineimap.
>> Since I've been deleting mails from the server under POP usage, I've
>> only got the most recent month or so of mail on the gmail servers.
>>
>> Now if I switch to a setup where gnus and offlineimap use the same
>> maildir for their mail, that means my old messages will be deleted (or
>> at least can't be stored in that maildir) when I switch to IMAP, right?
>> But if offlineimap populates a maildir, and gnus uses it as a mail
>> source to slurp up its messages, does that mean that from here on out
>> I'll have two copies of all my mail: offlineimap's maildir, and gnus'
>> group folders? Is it possible to delete the retrieved messages from
>> offlineimap's maildir, without confusing offlineimap?
>>
>> I hope this makes sense! I'm sure there's a simple solution, and I'll be
>> backing up thoroughly before I mess with it, but I'd love to hear how
>> this works for other people…
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Eric 
>>
>
>
> Mm I don't see why you would have two copies, if offlineimap is
> bidirectional and if gnus is not behaving too crazily the changes you do
> to your Maildir will be also written on the remote imap server.
>
> Is that correct?
> Another way is to have an imap server running locally on the machine and
> that should be even easier...

Thanks! Mostly this was a confusion about the way imap and gnus work
together. I was thinking that I could still use my local group-splitting
setup, but of course if you're using imap properly the splitting is done
on the server. Might be more work than I'm willing to put in at this point...

Re: More emacs instances

[Gary]

Richard Riley wrote:
> Andrea Crotti writes:
>
>> I was thinking that for example I could load a different instance of
>> Emacs for gnus (and maybe other chatting programs).
...
>> And also how should I handle the different configuration?

> I use different command line options to determine how the init
> functions. More details can be found here :-
>
> http://edward.oconnor.cx/2010/08/standalone-gnus

Hmm. I couldn't get that to work exactly as I wanted it.

What I have is this, based on those suggestions:
,----[ .emacs.el ]
|
| (defvar starting-normally (not (member "-gnus" command-line-args)))
| 
| (add-to-list
|  'command-switch-alist
|  '("gnus" . (lambda (&rest ignore)
| 
|               ;; Start Gnus when Emacs starts
|               (add-hook 'emacs-startup-hook 'gnus t)
|               ;; Exit Emacs after quitting Gnus
|               (add-hook 'gnus-after-exiting-gnus-hook
|                         'save-buffers-kill-emacs)
|             )
| ))
| 
| ;; ... snippage ...
|
| (if starting-normally
|     (progn
|       ;; "Expensive requires / loads here that are not used with gnus
|       (require 'config-tramp)
|       ;; etc.
|
|     )
| )
|
`----

-- 
Gary        Please do NOT send me 'courtesy' replies off-list.
GNU Emacs 23.2.1
emacsclient 23.2