From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: francogrex Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: C interpreter in Lisp/scheme/python Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:56:42 +0200 Organization: Private Message-ID: References: <9969f3c0-73e3-48e8-b4df-734c64bd00c0@t10g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <16a7e301-2e85-47eb-971e-79acc4e076a6@b35g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291947584 14335 80.91.229.12 (10 Dec 2010 02:19:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 02:19:44 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 10 03:19:40 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQsaB-0000jI-TR for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 03:19:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33375 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQsa5-0004ab-TP for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2010 21:19:34 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help, comp.lang.lisp, comp.lang.scheme, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.python Original-Lines: 72 Injection-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="3DEBbscR8oSBw7WsXZ+3Jg"; logging-data="25248"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19O2saQ651NbVpUmrj+l9m07/2XU4dHl2Y=" X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.14m (x86,32bit,MSVC) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ggY2jeJ1T8XckmfddO1Zfob35oU= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:180019 comp.lang.lisp:290582 comp.lang.scheme:87253 comp.lang.c:978614 comp.lang.python:638788 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 20:09:18 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:77191 Archived-At: In article , gneuner2@comcast.net says... >I don't think it's accurate to say that [some] experts really "scorn" >newbies, but I do agree that newbies are occasionally mistreated. > >One thing newbies have to realize is that on Usenet you are quite >likely to be talking to people who were there at the beginning and, of >necessity, are largely self educated in whatever the subject matter >might be. Many - I'd even say most - are happy to clarify >understanding and help with complicated problems, but there is a >general expectation that newbies have some basic research skills and >that they have tried to solve their problem before asking for help. > >Unfortunately, there is a small percentage of people who think Usenet >and other online forums are for answering homework questions or for >digging out of a jam at work. Getting help depends a lot on how the >question is asked: strident pleas for quick help or demands for an >answer are immediate red flags, but so are questions that begin with >"X is crap, why can't I do ..." and even seemingly polite questions >that are vague or unfocused (possibly indicating little or no thought >behind them) or posts which are directed to a large number of groups >(such as this thread we're in now). > >And, of course, in the language forums, drawing comparisons to >non-subject languages is generally considered rude except when done to >illustrate a relevant discussion point. Introducing irrelevant >comparisons, deliberately proselytizing X in a Y group or doing a lot >of complaining about the subject language is bound to attract disdain. > >As the Internet has grown, the absolute number of people in that >"small percentage" has grown as well. A newbie can simply be unlucky >enough to ask a question at the wrong time. If there has been a >recent rash of problem posts then experts may accidentally respond >negatively to a legitimate question. > >Of course, there are cross-cultural issues too. Many of the technical >groups are English-language. English, even when polite, can seem >harsh and/or abrupt to non-native speakers. > >On the whole, moderated groups are more conducive to helping newbies >because the moderator(s) filter obvious red flag posts. > >And, finally, newbies themselves should realize that experts are >donating time to answer questions and do get frustrated answering the >same questions over and over. They should not be offended by "cold" >responses that direct them to FAQs or that just give links to study >material. Newbies who need hand-holding or warm welcoming responses >filled with detail should go find a tutor. > > >> ... you have the bad "professors" who are freaks >>(probably they have a lot of problems at home, their wives >>screwing all the males on the block, daughters drug addicts etc) >>and want to take their hatred out on you, > >Unquestionably, there are experts who need their dosages adjusted. But >the same can be said for some percentage of other users too. > >OTOH, newbies often aren't in the position to know who is an expert >... obviously, anyone able to correctly answer their question knows >more about that specific issue. That doesn't necessarily qualify the >responder as an "expert". Some people get defensive at the edges of >their comfort zones. > > >Just some thoughts. YMMV. >George Yes I agree, you expressed the thought better than I did. Then let's not go on with this thread any further and let the newsgroups carry on programming language support and discussions. Thanks