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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@colin2.muc.de>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up?
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:36:19 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <gb12g3$ulm$1@colin2.muc.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 823901dd-c54c-4e3b-b6ad-512d52724a46@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com

Xah Lee <xah@xahlee.org> wrote:

> In the article The Modernization of Emacs, i suggested that emacs's
> ?*scratch*? buffer be removed. In this article, we give some detail
> about it.

> In the article, i gave the following as primary reasons that scratch
> buffer should be removed:

>    * It is not useful by 99% of letter writers. If they wanted a
> scratch pad, they can open a new document and not save it. This way is
> familiar to all software users.

It is necessary to have _some_ buffer when starting Emacs.  I don't know
where you get your figure of 99% from.  Even when it is not used, it's
not that big a nuisance.

>    * The ?*scratch*? ?buffer? is primarily designed for elisp
> programers. (it defaults to lisp mode) Majority of people who use
> emacs are not lisp coders. For lisp coders, they can easily customize
> their emacs to have a ?*scratch*? ?buffer?.

It's designed for any rough notes, including bits of Lisp.  The only
thing here I found bothersome was having C-j bound to
`eval-print-last-sexp', but I just rebound it to `newline-and-indent'.

>    * The ?*scratch*? ?buffer? is a intrusive idiosyncrasy. It is
> persistent, cannot be closed (it regenerates). It is foreign to all
> programers. This idiosyncrasy is the first thing presented to users,
> and it persists.

Have you considered coding an option so that this buffer would only be
created when, at startup time, there was no other buffer?  And coding
another option so that when you killed it, it would stay killed?  Write
a patch, and submit it to emacs-devel@gnu.org.  It might well be
accepted for Emacs 23.

[ .... ]

> Proposed Fix

> I propose that emacs should also add a menu command ?New buffer?, with
> the keyboard shortcut ?Ctrl+n?. Once called, it should create a
> scratch buffer titled ?untitled?. If one already exists, append
> numbers such ?untitled 2?. Here are the reasons:

As you know very well, there's already an important binding for C-n.

>    * The New command is a standard across Mac, Windows, Unix (Linux).
> It is familiar to all software users.

However, in Emacs, which uses many more key bindings than just about any
other program, such a prime binding can't be spared for a command used
only sporadically.  Of course, anybody who wants to rebind it is welcome.

>    * The Ctrl+n shortcut for New is standard and familiar to all
> software users.

That's not true.  It's not familiar to me.

>    * A New Buffer command (where the corresponding elisp command name
> might will be named new-empty-buffer), can supplant completely the
> functionality of *scratch* buffer.

This exists already: C-x b <new-name>.  I suggest you hack
`switch-to-buffer', possibly using advice at first, so that a C-u prefix
would cause it to create this new buffer.

>    * When users want to have a scratch buffer, he can create it by
> simply pressing the shortcut, and when he doesn't want it, he can
> simply close it with a standard keystroke Ctrl+w.

<sigh>.  Yet again, a prime binding like C-w can't be spared for such a
minor command.  As you know, C-w is bound to `kill-region'.

>    * By adopting the New Buffer and Ctrl+n, users can intuitively
> create multiple scratch buffers for any purpose.

Being able to create several *scratch*'es might well be useful.

>    * The name ?untitled? is conventional, far more widely understood,
> and more general than ?scratch?.

A mere unimportant trifle.

>    * For those who uses scratch buffer for elisp coding, she can set
> the default mode for untitled buffer to emacs lisp mode.

Or, more precisely, Lisp Interaction Mode.  But this option exists
already: `initial-major-mode'.

>    * Adopting the suggestion would fix several problems for those who
> actually use emacs's scratch buffer. (1) emacs no longer mysteriously
> respawn the ?*scratch*? buffer when user didn't want it. (2) user can
> create multiple scratch buffers by just pressing a shortcut. (3) User
> can close a scratch buffer and emacs will ask the user if she wants to
> save it.

> Draft Implementation

> The above suggestion is experimentally implemented in my Ergonomic
> Keyboard Shortcut Layout For Emacs.

Just as a suggestion, this seems silly.  Creating buffers has nothing to
do with keyboard layouts.  Why not separate out the functionality?

[ .... ]

>  Xah

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).



  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-09-19 20:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-09-16  5:28 How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Davin Pearson
2008-09-16  7:39 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-09-16  8:47   ` Davin Pearson
2008-09-16  8:14 ` Adam Rooke
2008-09-16  8:44 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-09-16  8:44 ` Charles Sebold
2008-09-16 20:57   ` Xah
2008-09-17  1:22     ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-09-18  5:35       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-18  5:41         ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19  0:39         ` tyler
     [not found]         ` <mailman.19510.1221784782.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-19  4:16           ` David Kastrup
2008-09-19 12:42             ` tyler
2008-09-20  1:53               ` Allan Gottlieb
2008-09-29 19:20                 ` tyler
2008-10-01 10:26                   ` Tassilo Horn
     [not found]             ` <mailman.19545.1221828161.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-19 21:09               ` David Kastrup
2008-09-19  4:49           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-18 23:50       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19  8:53         ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]         ` <mailman.19536.1221814453.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-19 11:34           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19 13:04             ` Cor Gest
2008-09-19 14:21               ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19 15:32                 ` Eric S Fraga
2008-09-20  0:54                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-22  8:25                     ` Eric S Fraga
2008-09-22 11:40                       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-22 12:16                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.19683.1222085805.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-22 13:53                           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-22 14:50                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.19689.1222095038.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-23 13:49                               ` Xah Lee
2008-09-23 15:47                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.19771.1222184864.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-23 16:27                                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-23 16:47                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                                     ` <mailman.19774.1222188466.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-23 16:59                                       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-23 17:43                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-09-22 18:25                         ` Eric S Fraga
2008-09-23  8:16                           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-23 13:02                             ` Eric S Fraga
2008-09-23 15:20                               ` Xah Lee
2008-09-23 18:55                                 ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-09-24  1:59                                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24  8:31                                     ` Eric S Fraga
2008-09-24 10:12                                       ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-09-24 11:46                                       ` Alexey Pustyntsev
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.19815.1222259480.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-24 12:52                                         ` Andreas Politz
2008-09-24 13:30                                       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24  9:28                                     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
     [not found]                                     ` <mailman.19809.1222248534.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-24 14:38                                       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24 17:15                                         ` Nikolaj Schumacher
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.19834.1222276553.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-25  3:16                                           ` Xah
2008-09-23 20:34                                 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-09-23 21:16                                 ` harven
2008-09-24  1:35                                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19 16:13               ` Nikolaj Schumacher
     [not found]               ` <mailman.19563.1221840835.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-20  0:02                 ` Xah Lee
2008-09-20  1:12                   ` Chetan
2008-09-20  2:35                   ` Kevin Rodgers
2008-09-24  7:35                     ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.19800.1222241766.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-24  9:26                       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-26  4:52                         ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.19977.1222404766.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-26 12:39                           ` Xah
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.19592.1221878128.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-20  2:58                     ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24  7:54                       ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.19802.1222242899.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-24 10:02                         ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24 11:42                           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24 12:51                             ` rustom
2008-09-24 13:33                               ` Bug? buffer-offer-save Xah Lee
2008-09-24 14:31                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-09-24 14:33                                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-09-26  5:40                           ` How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                           ` <mailman.19978.1222407641.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-26 13:28                             ` Xah
2008-09-26 21:45                               ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.20040.1222465122.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-27  0:15                                 ` Chetan
2008-09-27  7:57                                   ` Andreas Politz
2008-09-27 14:17                                     ` Xah
2008-09-27 12:42                                 ` Chetan
2008-09-27 16:19                                 ` Xah
2008-09-27 17:28                                   ` Sean Sieger
2008-09-27 18:12                                   ` B. T. Raven
2008-09-27 22:48                                     ` Chetan
2008-09-28  3:43                                     ` Xah
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.20073.1222536552.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-28  2:46                                     ` Xah
2008-09-27  2:20                               ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.20050.1222482050.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-27 14:27                                 ` Xah
2008-09-28 16:18                               ` stan
2008-09-28 17:11                                 ` Richard Riley
2008-09-29  2:34                                   ` stan
2008-09-29  2:58                                     ` Richard Riley
2008-09-29 15:39                                       ` Cor Gest
2008-09-29 16:03                                         ` Richard Riley
2008-09-29 16:37                                           ` Cor Gest
2008-09-29 17:50                                             ` Richard Riley
2008-10-15 16:01                                             ` buffers and files and plus ca la change and all that OtherMichael
2008-10-01  1:37                                       ` How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? stan
2008-10-01 11:44                                         ` rustom
2008-10-01 19:58                                           ` Sean Sieger
2008-10-01 14:19                                         ` Richard Riley
2008-09-29 14:06                                     ` rustom
2008-09-29 14:32                                       ` Richard Riley
2008-09-29 16:56                                         ` Chetan
2008-09-30  9:46                                           ` Paul R
2008-09-30 13:37                                             ` Alexey Pustyntsev
2008-10-01  7:27                                               ` Paul R
     [not found]                                             ` <mailman.20241.1222781309.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-30 19:20                                               ` xraysmalevich
2008-09-20 10:51                   ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-09-19 13:08             ` xraysmalevich
2008-09-19 14:13               ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19 15:21                 ` xraysmalevich
2008-09-19 15:36                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19 13:46             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]             ` <mailman.19551.1221832017.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-19 14:32               ` Xah Lee
2008-09-19 15:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-09-19 16:39                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-09-20  0:12                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-20  0:48                     ` Cor Gest
2008-09-20  3:06                       ` Xah Lee
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.19558.1221838316.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-19 18:11                   ` Lowell Gilbert
2008-09-19 20:36         ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2008-09-20  0:50           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-20  8:17             ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]             ` <mailman.19598.1221898300.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-22 13:07               ` Xah Lee
2008-09-22 16:29                 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-09-22 16:58                 ` Sean Sieger
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.19706.1222102753.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-22 17:56                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-22 19:15                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-09-23 14:47                       ` Xah Lee
2008-09-22 22:13                 ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.19718.1222121219.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-22 22:36                   ` David Kastrup
2008-09-24 11:43                     ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.19814.1222256243.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-27 16:35                       ` Xah
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.19702.1222100964.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-22 17:06                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-23 19:05                     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-09-24  2:08                   ` Xah Lee
2008-09-24  4:32                     ` Ross A. Laird
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.19792.1222230766.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-24 10:22                       ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-09-25  4:01                       ` Xah
2008-09-20  8:50         ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]         ` <mailman.19599.1221900241.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-22 13:08           ` Xah Lee
2008-09-17  7:36     ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]     ` <mailman.19399.1221637030.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-17 23:16       ` Xah
2008-09-21 12:06     ` Christian Herenz
2008-09-21 19:01       ` Joost Kremers
2008-09-24 14:39 ` William Case
     [not found] ` <mailman.19824.1222267150.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-25  5:06   ` Tim X
2008-09-25  6:35     ` Xah
2008-09-25  8:13       ` Jonathan Groll
     [not found]       ` <mailman.19898.1222330438.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-25  9:09         ` Andreas Politz
2008-09-25 10:01           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-09-25 11:17           ` Xah
     [not found]           ` <mailman.19906.1222336893.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-25 12:07             ` Xah
2008-09-25 12:53               ` Lennart Borgman
     [not found]               ` <mailman.19912.1222347213.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-25 13:21                 ` Xah
2008-09-25 13:48                   ` Lennart Borgman
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.19917.1222350495.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-25 13:57                     ` Xah
2008-09-25 15:39                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.19926.1222357204.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-26  1:07                         ` Xah
2008-09-25 11:00         ` Xah
2008-09-25 13:34           ` language (was: How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up?) Ted Zlatanov
2008-09-25 13:49             ` Xah
2008-09-25 19:47               ` language Ted Zlatanov
2008-09-25 17:58           ` How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Sean Sieger
     [not found]           ` <mailman.19940.1222365501.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-09-26  1:04             ` Xah

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