Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Ingo Strüwing]

Hi,

is there a way to configure the scrollbar behavior to match that of
other X11 applications in emacs 23?

Scrollbars of other applications behave like this: To scroll, one
presses the left mouse button on the slider. Then one drags the mouse
around. On release of the mouse button, the slider remains, where it was
at button release time. Regardless if the mouse pointer is on the slider
or not. A pre-existing selection is not affected.

Emacs 23 (as it is configured for me now) behaves differently on button
release:

- If the mouse pointer is not on the slider, the slider jumps back to
where it was when the drag started. That is, where it was when the mouse
button was *pressed*. A pre-existing selection is not affected.

- If the mouse pointer is (moved back) on the slider, the slider remains
where it was at button release time. A pre-existing selection is
replaced by the area that the scroll action moved over between button
press and button release.

Can I somehow configure the "normal" X11 behavior, which former versions
of emacs used to follow too?

Regards
Ingo
-- 
Ingo Strüwing, Database Group
Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder, Wolfgang Engels
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Häring   HRB München 161028

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 12.03.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:

> is there a way to configure the scrollbar behavior to match that of
> other X11 applications in emacs 23?

Compile it with GTK support!

>
> Scrollbars of other applications behave like this: To scroll, one
> presses the left mouse button on the slider. Then one drags the mouse
> around. On release of the mouse button, the slider remains, where it  
> was
> at button release time. Regardless if the mouse pointer is on the  
> slider
> or not. A pre-existing selection is not affected.

You do not have a mouse with a scroll-wheel? That's much easier,  
because you don't need to move the mouse to the slider in the scroll- 
bar.

> Can I somehow configure the "normal" X11 behavior, which former  
> versions
> of emacs used to follow too?


Invoke

	./configure --help

and see all options!

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

We need a president who's fluent in at least one language.
				– Buck Henry

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Ingo Strüwing]

Hi Peter,

Peter Dyballa, 12.03.2010 16:11:

> 
> Am 12.03.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:
> 
>> is there a way to configure the scrollbar behavior to match that of
>> other X11 applications in emacs 23?
> 
> Compile it with GTK support!


thank you for the suggestion. But what I have is:

GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.18.3)
 of 2009-11-10 on crested, modified by Debian

This is on Ubuntu 9.10. It claims to have GTK support.

> 
>>
>> Scrollbars of other applications behave like this: To scroll, one
>> presses the left mouse button on the slider. Then one drags the mouse
>> around. On release of the mouse button, the slider remains, where it was
>> at button release time. Regardless if the mouse pointer is on the slider
>> or not. A pre-existing selection is not affected.
> 
> You do not have a mouse with a scroll-wheel? That's much easier, because
> you don't need to move the mouse to the slider in the scroll-bar.


I have a mouse with a scroll-wheel. An I use it a lot. But often I have
to skip more than a few lines. Moving a quarter of a 4000 lines source
file means to move 1000 lines. I use to do that with the scroll bar,
rather than with a hundred wheel turns.

> 
>> Can I somehow configure the "normal" X11 behavior, which former versions
>> of emacs used to follow too?
> 
> 
> Invoke
> 
>     ./configure --help
> 
> and see all options!

I'm lazy and use to use packages from the distribution. But if you can
confirm that building from source fixes my problem, I'll do that.

Thanks and Regards
Ingo
-- 
Ingo Strüwing, Database Group
Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder, Wolfgang Engels
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Häring   HRB München 161028

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

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Am 12.03.2010 um 16:58 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:

> GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.18.3)
> of 2009-11-10 on crested, modified by Debian

Looks a bit old – GNU Emacs 23.2 should be out (in CVS 24.0.50 is  
recent).

>
> This is on Ubuntu 9.10. It claims to have GTK support.

You can check with lsof which libraries are really used this moment...


Which scroll-bars do you have, the left or the right ones? (I'm not  
going to tell which is which...)


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--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

"Debugging? Klingons do not debug! Our software does not coddle the  
weak."

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Sean Sieger]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

    Which scroll-bars do you have, the left or the right ones? (I'm not
    going to tell which is which...)

Those look nice, Pete.  Me and my plain-jane black xterm.

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 12.03.2010 um 21:01 schrieb Sean Sieger:

> Me and my plain-jane black xterm.

Your GNU Emacs 24.0.50 is a native X client. It's cruel to jail it  
into an xterm!

--
Mit evolutionären Grüßen

   Pete


"Evolution"            o           __o                     _o _
           °\___o      /0~         -\<,              ^\___ /=\\_/-%
oo~_______ /\ /\______/ \_________O/ O_______________o===>-->O--o____

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Sean Sieger]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

    Am 12.03.2010 um 21:01 schrieb Sean Sieger:

    > Me and my plain-jane black xterm.

    Your GNU Emacs 24.0.50 is a native X client. It's cruel to jail it
    into an xterm!

    --
    Mit evolutionären Grüßen

      Pete


    "Evolution"            o           __o                     _o _
              °\___o      /0~         -\<,              ^\___ /=\\_/-%
    oo~_______ /\ /\______/ \_________O/ O_______________o===>-->O--o____


What does that portion of your dotemacs look like again?

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 13.03.2010 um 01:43 schrieb Sean Sieger:

> What does that portion of your dotemacs look like again?

What do you mean? To what do you construct a connection of my dotemacs  
file?

--
Greetings

   Pete

These are my principles and if you don't like them... well, I have  
others.
				- Groucho Marx

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Sean Sieger]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

    What do you mean? To what do you construct a connection of my dotemacs
    file?

I think you once posted your dotemacs in regards to appearance
configurations.  I remember thinking, `Huh, look at (the names of) those
colors.'  To see in the image that you posted what I am assuming are the
very same colors, I wanted to try it.  Maybe I'm dreaming.

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 13.03.2010 um 12:59 schrieb Sean Sieger:

> Peter Dyballa writes:
>
>    What do you mean? To what do you construct a connection of my  
> dotemacs
>    file?
>
> I think you once posted your dotemacs in regards to appearance
> configurations.  I remember thinking, `Huh, look at (the names of)  
> those
> colors.'  To see in the image that you posted what I am assuming are  
> the
> very same colors, I wanted to try it.  Maybe I'm dreaming.
>


I had some X resources (could be there are more for GNU Emacs):

	Emacs*verticalScrollBar.background: green

It seems to apply for GNU Emacs 22.x – fore- *and* background...

For the standard GTK variant of GNU Emacs 23 I have;

	style "scroll"
	{
	  fg[NORMAL] = "tan3"                   # The arrow color.
	  bg[NORMAL] = "light goldenrod"        # The thumb and background  
around the arrow.
	  bg[ACTIVE] = "pale violet red"        # The trough color.
	  bg[PRELIGHT] = "lavender"             # The thumb color when the  
mouse is over it.
	}
	widget "*verticalScrollBar*" style "scroll"

It's just a hack. I'd have to study GTK a bit more – maybe next live,  
then when, hopefully, GTK has become something useful, something as  
elaborate as OpenWindows/OpenLook.

For the (for me) more useful Xaw3d variant I have this customisation:

	'(scroll-bar ((t (:background "light sky blue" :foreground  
"RosyBrown4"))))

– which does not seem to work completely, because foreground and  
background are the same in my picture. I should start to read the info  
file again...

--
Greetings

   Pete

Atheism is a non prophet organization.

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

> Am 12.03.2010 um 21:01 schrieb Sean Sieger:
>
>> Me and my plain-jane black xterm.
>
> Your GNU Emacs 24.0.50 is a native X client. It's cruel to jail it
> into an xterm!

Where is emacs-24?  Following google hits is proving to be a bit of a
frustration. 

I'm a little confused about how things are setup now.  For yrs I
downloaded the most advanced emacs just with `cvs update' in my build
directory.

I dropped off doing that a while back.  Maybe 1.5 yrs or so, when I
noticed my chosen linux distro (gentoo) would do that for me.

Not long ago, the naming changed from emacs-cvs (for gentoos' portage
install tools [emerge]) to emacs-vcs.  First I thougt it was just a
type but no... its changed and what it installs is a version of
emacs-23. 

Just now going back to buiding from sources myself and `cvs updating'
my source tree, followed with `./configure $flags' - `make bootstrap'
and `make install', I end up with an emacs-23 version.

So apparently whats available by cvs is not emacs-24.

So how does one aquire the most advanced sources (publicly available)
now ( emacs-24? I guess).

Just now: Checking the last 1000 posts on emacs devel shows no hits in
subject on `Subject:.*emacs-24', and only one on `Subject:.*24'.  That
one (Mar 11) is about having trouble building emacs24... but no
mention of where to get it.

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Sean Sieger]

    Where is emacs-24?

http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/emacs

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Sean Sieger <sean.sieger@gmail.com> writes:

>     Where is emacs-24?
>
> http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/emacs

Thanks... but its a bit thin on explaining how you acquire the emacs
pkg. 

It says simply:

  Getting a Copy of the Bazaar Repository
  Anonymous read-only access

  bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs

I'm assuming with bazaare installed I should be able to type that command
and get something:

 bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs
bzr: ERROR: Not a branch:
"http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/.bzr/branch/": 
  location is a repository.

They aren't too big on instruction...

When it used to be cvs there were a couple of commands shown what
would actually work verbatim

But now they tell you right up front that the cvs repo is not
current. 

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Sean Sieger]

    They aren't too big on instruction...

That's because the documentation for what you want to do is being
hammered out at emacswiki.  Um, google `emacswiki bzr'.

newer emacs on karmic, was: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Tom Roche]

Not having a scrollwheel I can't speak to your main issue, but

Ingo Strüwing 12.03.2010 16:58
>> GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.18.3)
>> of 2009-11-10 on crested, modified by Debian

Peter Dyballa Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:46:38 +0100
> Looks a bit old – GNU Emacs 23.2 should be out

>> This is on Ubuntu 9.10.

On my vanilla/GNOME karmic, I'm running

$ date ; aptitude search emacs* | grep -e '^i'
> Fri Mar 12 15:08:43 EST 2010
> i A emacs-snapshot                  - The GNU Emacs editor (developm
> i A emacs-snapshot-bin-common       - The GNU Emacs editor's shared,
> i A emacs-snapshot-common           - The GNU Emacs editor's common 
> i   emacs-snapshot-gtk              - The GNU Emacs editor (transiti
> i A emacsen-common                  - Common facilities for all emac
$ date ; emacs --version
> Fri Mar 12 15:09:03 EST 2010
> GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1

Not much newer, but it might help to

$ sudo aptitude install emacs-snapshot-gtk

FWIW I haven't had any significant problems with it (other than those
that derive from my remaining an emacs newbie after more than a decade
of use :-)

HTH, Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com>

Re: newer emacs on karmic, was: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 12.03.2010 um 21:14 schrieb Tom Roche:

> $ sudo aptitude install emacs-snapshot-gtk

Snapshot: some outtake from CVS, not a stable release. A long time  
"unstable" version 23.1.90 was available. Then came updates to  
23.1.91, 23.1.92, and 23.1.93. Now 24.0.50 is out.

--
Greetings

   Pete

When people run around and around in circles we say they are crazy.  
When planets do it we say they are orbiting.

Re: newer emacs on karmic

[Tom Roche]

Ingo Strüwing Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:58:14 +0100
>>> I'm lazy and [prefer] to use packages from the [ubuntu standard]
>>> distribution.

(mir auch!)

Tom Roche 12.03.2010 21:14
>> $ sudo aptitude install emacs-snapshot-gtk

Peter Dyballa Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:08:56 +0100
> Snapshot: some outtake from CVS, not a stable release.

Yes, but the ubuntu snapshot package(s)

* provide the latest emacs available in an ubuntu package (IIUC, but
  ICBW)

* are from the standard distribution, which this user prefers

* are currently plenty stable (IMHO)

HTH, Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com>

Re: newer emacs on karmic

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 12.03.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Tom Roche:

> * are currently plenty stable (IMHO)

Yes, this can be a good reason. (I have a few GNU Emacsen 23.x around,  
so I don't care when the latest version either does not compile or  
produces scrap for a few days.)

--
Greetings

   Pete

The future will be much better tomorrow.
				– George W. Bush

Re: newer emacs on karmic, was: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Ingo Strüwing]

Hi Tom,

Tom Roche, 12.03.2010 21:14:

...
> $ sudo aptitude install emacs-snapshot-gtk
> 
> FWIW I haven't had any significant problems with it (other than those
> that derive from my remaining an emacs newbie after more than a decade
> of use :-)

Thank you for the tip. Unfortunately it didn't make a difference
regarding my scrollbar problem.

Regards
Ingo
-- 
Ingo Strüwing, Database Group
Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder, Wolfgang Engels
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Häring   HRB München 161028

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Ingo Strüwing]

Hi Peter,

Peter Dyballa, 12.03.2010 20:46:

> 
> Am 12.03.2010 um 16:58 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:
> 
>> GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.18.3)
>> of 2009-11-10 on crested, modified by Debian
> 
> Looks a bit old – GNU Emacs 23.2 should be out (in CVS 24.0.50 is recent).
> 
>>
>> This is on Ubuntu 9.10. It claims to have GTK support.
> 
> You can check with lsof which libraries are really used this moment...


Besides others it shows these:

/usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0.1800.3
/usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0.2600.0
/usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0.1800.3
/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1800.3

I'd say it uses GTK.

> 
> 
> Which scroll-bars do you have, the left or the right ones? (I'm not
> going to tell which is which...)

I have it on the right. As most other X11 applications have too.

I hope, you won't say that it matters if the scrollbar is left or right?

Regards
Ingo
-- 
Ingo Strüwing, Database Group
Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder, Wolfgang Engels
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Häring   HRB München 161028

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 15.03.2010 um 11:41 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:

>> You can check with lsof which libraries are really used this  
>> moment...
>
>
> Besides others it shows these:
>
> /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0.1800.3
> /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0.2600.0
> /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0.1800.3
> /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1800.3
>
> I'd say it uses GTK.

No. These come in because GNU Emacs uses librsvg2. Look what my Xaw3d  
version uses:

	/opt/local/lib/libbz2.1.0.5.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libcroco-0.6.3.0.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libexpat.1.5.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgif.4.1.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgio-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgsf-1.114.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libICE.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libintl.8.0.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libjpeg.7.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libncurses.5.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libotf.0.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpixman-1.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/librsvg-2.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libSM.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libX11.6.3.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXau.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXaw3d.8.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXdmcp.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXext.6.4.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXft.2.1.13.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libxml2.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXmu.6.2.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXp.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXpm.4.11.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.3.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXt.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libz.1.2.3.dylib

And it's not a GTK client because I configured, compiled, and  
installed it and when I invoke the bug report function from the Help  
menu it also tells me:

	configured using `configure  '--without-sound' '--without-pop' '-- 
without-dbus' '--without-gconf' '--with-x-toolkit=athena' '--x- 
libraries=/opt/local/lib' '--x-includes=/opt/local/include' '--enable- 
locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs/calendar24:/Library/ 
Application Support/Emacs' 'CFLAGS=-g -Wno-pointer-sign -H -pipe -fPIC  
-mcpu=7450 -mtune=7450 -faltivec -maltivec -fast''

These libraries are used by my GTK variant:

	/opt/local/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-xpm.so
	/opt/local/lib/libatk-1.0.0.2609.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libbz2.1.0.5.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libcroco-0.6.3.0.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libdbus-1.3.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libdbus-glib-1.2.1.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libexpat.1.5.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgconf-2.4.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgif.4.1.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgio-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgsf-1.114.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgthread-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libICE.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libintl.8.0.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libjpeg.7.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libncurses.5.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libORBit-2.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libotf.0.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpixman-1.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/librsvg-2.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libSM.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libX11.6.3.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXau.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXcomposite.1.0.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXcursor.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXdamage.1.1.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXdmcp.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXext.6.4.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXfixes.3.1.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXft.2.1.13.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXi.6.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXinerama.1.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libxml2.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXpm.4.11.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXrandr.2.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.3.0.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/libz.1.2.3.dylib
	/opt/local/lib/pango/1.6.0/modules/pango-basic-fc.so


>>
>> Which scroll-bars do you have, the left or the right ones? (I'm not
>> going to tell which is which...)
>
> I have it on the right. As most other X11 applications have too.
>
> I hope, you won't say that it matters if the scrollbar is left or  
> right?


This plays no role. I wanted you to tell whether the scroll bars look  
like GTK or something else. Therefore I attached a screen-shot. GTK  
and other scroll-bars bear characteristic elements.

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

                   Sorry my terrible English, my native language Lisp

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Ingo Strüwing]

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Hi Peter,

Peter Dyballa, 15.03.2010 20:44:

> 
> Am 15.03.2010 um 11:41 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:
> 
>>> You can check with lsof which libraries are really used this moment...
>>
>>
>> Besides others it shows these:
>>
...
>> I'd say it uses GTK.
> 
> No. These come in because GNU Emacs uses librsvg2. Look what my Xaw3d
> version uses:
> 
...
> 
> And it's not a GTK client because I configured, compiled, and installed
> it and when I invoke the bug report function from the Help menu it also
> tells me:
> 
...
> These libraries are used by my GTK variant:
> 
...


I beg your pardon that I'm too lazy to compare both lists to find the
essential difference. From a quick glance both lists seem to share quite
a few libraries.


> 
> 
>>>
>>> Which scroll-bars do you have, the left or the right ones? (I'm not
>>> going to tell which is which...)
>>
>> I have it on the right. As most other X11 applications have too.
>>
>> I hope, you won't say that it matters if the scrollbar is left or right?
> 
> 
> This plays no role. I wanted you to tell whether the scroll bars look
> like GTK or something else. Therefore I attached a screen-shot. GTK and
> other scroll-bars bear characteristic elements.

I didn't find the attachment. So I guess you asked me to attach a screen
shot.

Regards and thanks that you keep following the issue.
Ingo

P.S. If there is a German list, we can continue there, if you prefer.
-- 
Ingo Strüwing, Database Group
Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder

[-- Attachment #2: emacs.gif --]
[-- Type: image/gif, Size: 63759 bytes --]

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 16.03.2010 um 09:36 schrieb Ingo Strüwing:

> I didn't find the attachment. So I guess you asked me to attach a  
> screen
> shot.

Obviously GTK+! Notice this four letter word and also the anti- 
aliasing. You can grab the slider and simply drag it.

>
> P.S. If there is a German list, we can continue there, if you prefer.


Don't know...

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

If it does exist, it's out of date.
				– Arnold's Second Law of Documentation

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Bernardo]

> I have a mouse with a scroll-wheel. An I use it a lot. But often I have
> to skip more than a few lines. Moving a quarter of a 4000 lines source
> file means to move 1000 lines. I use to do that with the scroll bar,
> rather than with a hundred wheel turns.

not addressing your original question, but to jump over large chunks in 
a file you may want to consider an alternative to reaching for the 
mouse, like in your case (roughly):
C-2 M-<

,----[ (beginning-of-buffer &optional arg) ]
| Move point to the beginning of the buffer; leave mark at previous
| position.
| With C-u prefix, do not set mark at previous position.
| With numeric arg N, put point N/10 of the way from the beginning.
| (beginning-of-buffer &optional arg)
| ...
`----

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Brendan Miller]

I'm also having trouble as well with gtk emacs 23.1.1 where if I
scroll by dragging the scroll bar, it sometimes selects a bunch of
text... Sounds like the same problem?

I have my scrollbar on the right side (why the heck is this still not
the default?) if that effects it at all.

Is there any way to fix this?

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Ingo Strüwing <Ingo.Struewing@sun.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there a way to configure the scrollbar behavior to match that of
> other X11 applications in emacs 23?
>
> Scrollbars of other applications behave like this: To scroll, one
> presses the left mouse button on the slider. Then one drags the mouse
> around. On release of the mouse button, the slider remains, where it was
> at button release time. Regardless if the mouse pointer is on the slider
> or not. A pre-existing selection is not affected.
>
> Emacs 23 (as it is configured for me now) behaves differently on button
> release:
>
> - If the mouse pointer is not on the slider, the slider jumps back to
> where it was when the drag started. That is, where it was when the mouse
> button was *pressed*. A pre-existing selection is not affected.
>
> - If the mouse pointer is (moved back) on the slider, the slider remains
> where it was at button release time. A pre-existing selection is
> replaced by the area that the scroll action moved over between button
> press and button release.
>
> Can I somehow configure the "normal" X11 behavior, which former versions
> of emacs used to follow too?
>
> Regards
> Ingo
> --
> Ingo Strüwing, Database Group
> Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
> Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder, Wolfgang Engels
> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Häring   HRB München 161028
>
>
>

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 13.03.2010 um 02:13 schrieb Brendan Miller:

> I'm also having trouble as well with gtk emacs 23.1.1 where if I
> scroll by dragging the scroll bar, it sometimes selects a bunch of
> text... Sounds like the same problem?

No, that's something completely different. You might be able to track  
down the reason by typing C-h l (invoking the function view-lossage)  
and examining the key presses and mouse events recorded in the *Help*  
buffer.

>
> I have my scrollbar on the right side (why the heck is this still not
> the default?) if that effects it at all.

Because some people have two arms. And some have a functioning hand at  
the open end of the left arm.

And there are windowing systems...

>
> Is there any way to fix this?


See the variable vertical-scroll-bar!

--
Greetings

   Pete

Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers.
				- Tony-A (some guy on /.)

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Brendan Miller]

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@web.de> wrote:
>
> Am 13.03.2010 um 02:13 schrieb Brendan Miller:
>
>> I'm also having trouble as well with gtk emacs 23.1.1 where if I
>> scroll by dragging the scroll bar, it sometimes selects a bunch of
>> text... Sounds like the same problem?
>
> No, that's something completely different. You might be able to track down
> the reason by typing C-h l (invoking the function view-lossage) and
> examining the key presses and mouse events recorded in the *Help* buffer.
>
>>
>> I have my scrollbar on the right side (why the heck is this still not
>> the default?) if that effects it at all.
>
> Because some people have two arms. And some have a functioning hand at the
> open end of the left arm.

There's no need to be rude... and in any case I was talking about the
*defaults* for GTK emacs not being set to match all the other GTK
apps, not asking anyone to chop their arm off. Yes, I've changed the
config on *my* setup.

Re: Emacs 23 scrollbar behavior

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 13.03.2010 um 22:05 schrieb Brendan Miller:

> I was talking about the *defaults* for GTK emacs not being set to  
> match all the other GTK apps

That wasn't clear to me...

> I've changed the config on *my* setup.


In your init file? Or in GNU Emacs' own gtkrc file?


You might consider to send a bug report about the scroll-bar's faulty  
behaviour in GNOME.

--
Greetings

   Pete

It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities  
in our air and water that are doing it.