Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Rustom Mody]

On Thursday, July 25, 2013 6:06:01 PM UTC+5:30, Bastien wrote:
> Now here is my attempt at playing the "15 minutes" game:
> http://bzg.fr/learn-emacs-lisp-in-15-minutes.html

Neat! I learnt something -- C-j (always used M-C-x so far)

Now learn elisp in 15 minutes is really too ambitious for me to tackle leave aside improve upon.  However Ive one general comment:

Elisp is 2 things:
1. A scripting framework for the emacs editor
2. A full-scale (turing complete) programming language

Your intro emphasises 1 more than 2.

How to balance more and yet stay within the 15 minutes constraint...
Well dunno... :-)
If I think of something I'll tell

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Bastien]

Hi Rustom,

Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> Elisp is 2 things:
> 1. A scripting framework for the emacs editor
> 2. A full-scale (turing complete) programming language
>
> Your intro emphasises 1 more than 2.

Agreed -- the tutorial targets new potential users, and even
non-computer folks.  (I wrote it first for a friend who wants
to learn programming, but does not know where to start.)

I'm not sure a non-computer guy/girl can really make sense of
the difference you point, although I acknowledge i's important.

Dunno.

> How to balance more and yet stay within the 15 minutes constraint...
> Well dunno... :-)
> If I think of something I'll tell

Thanks so far!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[notbob]

On 2013-07-25, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
> Now here is my attempt at playing the "15 minutes" game:
> http://bzg.fr/learn-emacs-lisp-in-15-minutes.html

> Comments and feedback welcome, enjoy,


I'm at 15 mins and still only half way! ('course I'm dumb as a stump)



";; Use the mouse to go back to the window where you code."

Doesn't work for me.  Using emacs 23.3, but C-x o does the trick.  


OK, I'm at 30 mins and have found another mistake.  You instruct:

"
;; Now if you don't mind, I'll stop asking you to hit `C-xC-e': do it
;; for every sexp that follows.

;; It's often useful to erase the buffer:
"

But, you forgot to instruct to return to scratch buffer.  So,
entering code in test buffer turn scratch buffer into test buffer, of
which I now have two test buffers which do the same thing.



This is not a gotchya, jes a example of every programming howto I've
ever read.  Somewhere, the author always makes a mistake and then I'm
left confused and lost.  Sorry, but the syntax must be perfect and
explained in detail and typically, it is not.  Otherwise, I like your
little tutorial.  In yer favor, I learned more in 30 mins than all
previous LISP lessons, including emacs' own.  I'll finish it and
bookmark it.  Also, I hate coding.  I'll never be a programmer and
have no desire to be, but love linux and know I must learn some code.
I also love emacs and try to learn something new every day.  In that,
you have succeeded brilliantly.  Thank you.  ;)

BTW. emacs 23.3 does not open to scratch buffer.

nb

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Bastien]

notbob <notbob@nothome.com> writes:

> On 2013-07-25, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>>
>> Now here is my attempt at playing the "15 minutes" game:
>> http://bzg.fr/learn-emacs-lisp-in-15-minutes.html
>
>> Comments and feedback welcome, enjoy,
>
> I'm at 15 mins and still only half way! ('course I'm dumb as a
> stump)

Well, my bad I guess :/

> ";; Use the mouse to go back to the window where you code."
>
> Doesn't work for me.  Using emacs 23.3, but C-x o does the trick.  

I fixed this by mentioning C-xo and _clicking_ on the window (not only
hovering over it.)

> OK, I'm at 30 mins and have found another mistake.  You instruct:
>
> "
> ;; Now if you don't mind, I'll stop asking you to hit `C-xC-e': do it
> ;; for every sexp that follows.
>
> ;; It's often useful to erase the buffer:
> "
>
> But, you forgot to instruct to return to scratch buffer.  So,
> entering code in test buffer turn scratch buffer into test buffer, of
> which I now have two test buffers which do the same thing.

Good catch!  Fixed.

> This is not a gotchya, jes a example of every programming howto I've
> ever read.  Somewhere, the author always makes a mistake and then I'm
> left confused and lost.  

Been there too.

> Sorry, but the syntax must be perfect and
> explained in detail and typically, it is not.  

It's hard to find the right trade-off: I cannot go into too much
details about variables, dynamic variables, etc.  

> Otherwise, I like your
> little tutorial.  In yer favor, I learned more in 30 mins than all
> previous LISP lessons, including emacs' own.  I'll finish it and
> bookmark it.  Also, I hate coding.  I'll never be a programmer and
> have no desire to be, but love linux and know I must learn some code.
> I also love emacs and try to learn something new every day.  In that,
> you have succeeded brilliantly.  Thank you.  ;)

Glad this was useful, even in some (yet?) unpredictable ways!

> BTW. emacs 23.3 does not open to scratch buffer.

Oh, you're right too here, fixed by suggesting to hit `q' to escape
the first welcome window.

Thanks for the comments!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Stefan Monnier]

> It's hard to find the right trade-off: I cannot go into too much
> details about variables, dynamic variables, etc.  

Indeed.  One thing that might be worth squeezing in is some example of
C-h f <foo> and then click to get to the source.


        Stefan

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Bastien]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> It's hard to find the right trade-off: I cannot go into too much
>> details about variables, dynamic variables, etc.  
>
> Indeed.  One thing that might be worth squeezing in is some example of
> C-h f <foo> and then click to get to the source.

Yes.  The latest version contains this postamble:

;; If you want to know more about a variable or a function:
;;
;; C-h v a-variable RET
;; C-h f a-function RET
;;
;; To read the Emacs Lisp manual with Emacs:
;;
;; C-h i m elisp RET
;;
;; To read an online introduction to Emacs Lisp:
;;
;; https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eintr/index.html

I guess it's already a lot.

(Several people said that such a hands on tutorial for writing a mode
would be handy.  On my TODO list for the next two months.)

-- 
 Bastien

Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Bastien]

Mandatory reading:
http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Now here is my attempt at playing the "15 minutes" game:
http://bzg.fr/learn-emacs-lisp-in-15-minutes.html

Hope this will make its way to:
http://learnxinyminutes.com/

Comments and feedback welcome, enjoy,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> Now here is my attempt at playing the "15 minutes" game:
> http://bzg.fr/learn-emacs-lisp-in-15-minutes.html

Nice job. How easy it is to achieve many things in interpreted (Emacs)
Lisp compared to (e.g.) Java.

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Kevin Montuori]

>>>>> "B" == Bastien  <bzg@altern.org> writes:


    B> Comments and feedback welcome, enjoy,

Nicely done, I'm sure more than a few people will find it helpful.

A few comments:

  - A link to "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" might prove
    handy for continuing on: http://tinyurl.com/lanbfyv 

  - The paragraph beginning with "This set of command is loaded on
    top..." is confusing.  I'd be tempted to make it way simpler:

      Emacs has a built-in set of functions (or commands); you use these
      built-in functions as building blocks for custom functions.

  - I'd point out that every sexp returns a value and some sexps produce
    side effects -- and explain the difference between a value and side
    effect.

Stupid as it sounds, I'd mention to your friend that you can't break a
computer by mis-programming it (and that most programmers spend their
time fixing code that's broken to some degree, not writing perfect code
out of the gate).  This is less obvious to non-programmers than I would
have suspected.


k.


-- 
  Kevin Montuori
  montuori@gmail.com

Re: Learn Emacs Lisp in 15 minutes

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

"Kevin Montuori" <montuori@gmail.com> writes:

> A few comments:
>
>   - A link to "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" might prove
>     handy for continuing on: http://tinyurl.com/lanbfyv 

Indeed, add at the end.

>   - The paragraph beginning with "This set of command is loaded on
>     top..." is confusing.  I'd be tempted to make it way simpler:
>
>       Emacs has a built-in set of functions (or commands); you use these
>       built-in functions as building blocks for custom functions.

I rewrote it but slightly differently.  Thanks for putting me on this
track anyway, let me know if it sounds clearer now.

>   - I'd point out that every sexp returns a value and some sexps produce
>     side effects -- and explain the difference between a value and side
>     effect.

Mhhh... I added one little sentence, but I don't want to go too far
down that road.  For example, I don't want to say that no-side-effect
functions are more "functional" than others -- because it sounds
jargonish for newcomers, and it does not really add to the
understanding of this little tutorial I think.

> Stupid as it sounds, I'd mention to your friend that you can't break a
> computer by mis-programming it (and that most programmers spend their
> time fixing code that's broken to some degree, not writing perfect code
> out of the gate).  This is less obvious to non-programmers than I would
> have suspected.

How true.  I added a notice, and a "thanks" section at the end!

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien