From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: use-package Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 07:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <874magv15u.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87d1p38ll6.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87y47pg5da.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87shxwzkzg.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462456931 378 80.91.229.3 (5 May 2016 14:02:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 14:02:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 05 16:01:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ayJql-0005GR-IY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 16:01:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53733 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayJqf-0007mQ-DN for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 10:01:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51826) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayJqP-0007ZH-72 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 10:01:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayJqD-0004dR-Bu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 10:01:27 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24773) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayJqD-0004Wd-61 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 10:01:21 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u45E0ss4031376 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 May 2016 14:00:55 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u45E0sJ0006944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 May 2016 14:00:54 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u45E0oqZ008523; Thu, 5 May 2016 14:00:52 GMT In-Reply-To: <87shxwzkzg.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:109884 Archived-At: > >> For example, diminishing minor modes -- I think we have overloaded the > >> functionality of minor modes; many (company say, or eldoc) you either > >> want on or off. Do I really need mode-line space to be taken up tellin= g > >> me that company is one? And is the mode-line the only place we can > >> display this information? > > > > There are of course ways (e.g. packages) to reduce the mode-line > > indications. But I think it might be good if vanilla Emacs provided > > a simple way for a user to not display particular lighters (mode > > indications in the mode-line). >=20 > I don't think this is the right solution. Asking the user to choose > which lighters to hide is just passing the buck. Of course I did not mean obligating the user to manage lighters. I do advocate making it easier for users to manage them, if they want to. > Currently my mode lighter is >=20 > Message pab MML yas Helm Abbrev Fill Narrow >=20 > pab =3D=3D pabbrev is my own abbrev mode, but diminished > MML =3D=3D is attachement > yas =3D=3D yasnippet diminished > Helm =3D=3D Completion > Abbrev =3D=3D Another abbrev expansion > Fill =3D=3D auto fill. > Narrow =3D=3D is narrowing >=20 > Of these, pab is global, so why show it? Why might a user want to show the lighter for a global minor mode? Some minor modes you will turn on and off, perhaps even frequently. For some of those you might well want to know whether it is on or off. This is no different than for a local minor mode, such as overwrite mode. You might well want to know whether a particular mode is on. It can depend on the mode and on the user. There is no one-size-fits-all, IMHO. And that is true of global modes as well as local ones. > Only "Fill" tells me anything useful, since I turn this on and off in > the same buffer, and "Message", since knowing the mode is good. What's useful to see depends on the user and on the context. That's really the point, IMO. A library can of course choose not to have a lighter for some mode (local or global). But in the end, users too need to be able to easily adjust things to suit their tastes and needs.