From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Gene Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <5B8BFDC9-A07B-48FE-8C97-1BB0B84E5577@gmail.com> <53705d26-8a69-4453-aed9-ab72a0cd139e@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540920210 15550 195.159.176.226 (30 Oct 2018 17:23:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:23:30 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:22:36 +0000 User-Agent: G2/1.0 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 30 18:23:25 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gHXjf-0003pL-NS for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 18:23:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54603 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gHXlh-00070N-2W for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 13:25:29 -0400 X-Received: by 2002:a37:2b0d:: with SMTP id r13mr15640733qkh.38.1540920156828; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:22:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aed:2004:: with SMTP id 4-v6mr44906qta.5.1540920156660; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!e5-v6no2958927qtr.0!news-out.google.com!c29-v6ni2869qtg.1!nntp.google.com!e5-v6no2958921qtr.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=72.43.228.70; posting-account=xePGxQoAAAAgJalA5zaHmrGIX9Wk_gLW Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.43.228.70 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:224377 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118506 Archived-At: On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 8:20:06 PM UTC-4, Garreau, Alexandre wrote= : > On 2018-10-26 at 11:05, Gene wrote: >> The missing Course is NOT one which emphasizes `functional' this or >> `lispiness' that ... it's one which keeps it's eyes upon the prize: >> `Exploiting the hell out of Emacs Lisp as a Domain-specific language >> which saves YOU time by allowing YOU to outsource and delegate >> time-consuming, tedious, otherwise-MANUAL operations!' >> >> Computer time is cheaper than dirt; YOUR TIME is priceless. =20 > Indeed, that=E2=80=99s what I meant when I said that I/O and high-level u= ser-end > facilities were what would make elisp a fantastic language for learning > programming, ... Not only elisp as a would-be stand-alone language, but emacs as the dynamic= engine providing the elisp REPL and the workshop-full-of-tools environment= it provides. To wit, folks are doing reproducible research via org-mode's code blocks ..= . although usually via a single language. ref: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3Dyoutube+reproducable+re= search+with+emacs Can you imagine a self-paced, self-directed learner working his or her way = through a programming problem hosted on Rosetta Code? ref: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Emacs_Lisp There are so many languages supported by code block feature of Org-mode tha= t the student can perform their very own n-way comparative linguistics rese= arch. > ... *nonetheless* (I said this only to moderate what I was > saying about how great would elisp be as a teaching language) It could be, if one started from a Natural Language Processing perspective. I'd like to see someone start with the Noun-Phrase and Verb-Phrase `lists' = from a Linguistic Typology perspective using two-or-more families of langua= ges ... say Germanic languages (including English) and Romance languages. ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_typology If lisp can encode `trees' then why not sentence structure trees? ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=3DSentence+structure+trees&t=3Dffsb&ia=3Dweb All too often the teaching of `programming languages' requires that the ser= vile, obsequious, fawning `student' emphasizes syntax over semantics as he = or she forfeits self-directed self-pacing while subordinating his or her cu= riosity to FEAR ... fear of a `bad grade', fear of not COMPLETING an `assig= nment' vis-a-vis some arbitrary and capricious `dead line', fear of losing = position in class standing, etc. It might be interesting to see a semantics-first approach to LEARNING compu= ter languages from this sort of more_Natural-Language-Semantic_THAN_CS-synt= actic approach. I'm all for displacing didactics with mathetics. ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathetics Cheers! =20 I'd certainly like to see Rosetta Code's assortment of coding examples re-p= resented via one-example-per-Org-mode_file via the exploitation of code blo= cks. ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=3Dorg-mode+code+blocks&t=3Dffsb&ia=3Dweb