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From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>
To: "Philip K." <philipk@posteo.net>
Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 21:15:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <d8cb47626b849bacf38a@heytings.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87pn16a1xn.fsf@posteo.net>


>> No, with one control key you have all characters (not just letters, 
>> also digits and symbols), plus all C-something, plus all M-something, 
>> plus C-M-something.  With one control key and its corrsponding meta key 
>> you multiply that number by two.
>
> Ah ok, I get what you mean. Does it really make that much of a 
> difference? I'm not sure how many packages you are expecting would add 
> default bindings (or how conflict resolution should happen), but do you 
> really need more than 26?
>

That reminds me the famous "640 kb should be enough for anyone" ;-) 
Indeed, 26 letters is not enough.  Magit has three global commands, 
Org-mode has three, and Bookmark+ has three keymaps.  With just three 
packages you've already used 35% of the available keys.  I hope you 
understand that it can't be a long-term solution.  Moreover, AFAIU, 
packages cannot automatically bind their commands to C-c LETTER keys 
anyway: these keys are strictly reserved for users in their personal 
configuration files.

>>>> It's what most users expect.  apt install elpa-magit, C-x g, and 
>>>> voilà: Magit works.
>>>
>>> How do you come to this conclusion?
>>
>> It's what Magit (and other similar packages) do.  The presupposition of 
>> the proposal is that such packages know their users.
>
> I only know of Magit that does it, and as I have said before, I think it 
> is a mistake and unfriendly. But that still doesn't answer the question. 
> Why do you think that users expect it -- not the image that magit has it 
> it's users.
>

Being a programmer, I can understand your viewpoint.  As a user I can't. 
With M-x load-theme <something>, the user interface changes.  What makes 
keybindings so different from user interface colors that they should 
absolutely not be touched when a package is loaded, say with M-x 
global-foobar-mode, and require an explicit manual configuration by the 
user?  Do you also think it's a mistake and unfriendly if a package 
installs a menu item?  If not, what makes keybindings fundamentally 
different from menu items?


  reply	other threads:[~2021-02-11 21:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <7ef75c33936136eb3a20@heytings.org>
     [not found] ` <8735y56naf.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]   ` <8ed9b43502ae9a36b057@heytings.org>
     [not found]     ` <87tuqk6d9d.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]       ` <3966473cc1ab9f104724@heytings.org>
2021-02-10 23:35         ` PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages Philip K.
2021-02-11  8:45           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-11 13:53             ` Philip K.
2021-02-11 15:47               ` Philip K.
2021-02-11 15:59               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-11 16:20                 ` Philip K.
2021-02-11 17:48                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-11 18:34                     ` Philip K.
2021-02-11 21:15                       ` Gregory Heytings [this message]
2021-02-11 22:48                         ` Philip K.
2021-02-12  0:01                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 10:27                             ` Philip K.
2021-02-12 11:59                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 13:23                                 ` Philip K.
2021-02-12 13:54                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 14:09                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-12 16:04                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 17:25                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-12 17:54                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 18:16                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-12 21:48                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-13  0:37                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-13  8:33                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-13  9:09                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-13 13:06                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-13 14:28                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-13 15:01                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 16:08                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-13 15:02                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-13 15:21                                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 15:28                                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:39                                                                 ` Nothing is the list - " Jean Louis
2021-02-13 20:14                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-13 20:58                                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 21:18                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-13 21:32                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-13 21:37                                                                 ` PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key (why only one?) " Jean Louis
2021-02-13 23:55                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-14  6:19                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  6:33                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  8:06                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 18:30                                                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 19:21                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 19:44                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 23:30                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-15  0:33                                                                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15  5:59                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 17:59                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-14 18:14                                                                       ` libraries (was: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key (why only one?) and reserve it for third-party packages) Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 18:23                                                                       ` PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key (why only one?) and reserve it for third-party packages Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-14 21:37                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15  0:28                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15  5:02                                                                           ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-15 11:08                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-17  9:07                                                                               ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-20 17:50                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-14 18:30                                                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 18:50                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-14 19:24                                                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 19:41                                                                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 23:30                                                                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-13 10:05                                                     ` PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key " Jean Louis
2021-02-13  8:24                                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 12:44                                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 14:26                                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 15:09                                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:24                                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 15:38                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:45                                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12  4:45                           ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-12  9:58                             ` Philip K.
2021-02-11 16:59                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11 16:58             ` Drew Adams
2021-02-11 16:59             ` Leo Butler
2021-02-15 19:01 Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15 19:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-02-08 10:02 Gregory Heytings
2021-02-08 16:41 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-08 22:01 ` Francis Belliveau
2021-02-09  0:05   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-10 22:54     ` Francis Belliveau
2021-02-09  6:31 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-09  9:13   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-10 11:17     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-09 17:13   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-09 17:49     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09 18:12       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-09 19:23         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09 20:52           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-09 21:15             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09 21:47               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-10 11:07                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-10  9:05               ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-10 14:42                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-10 14:59                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09  8:13 ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-02-09  9:13   ` Gregory Heytings

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