From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Changing the language of gnus menu entries Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <<87eh8eekza.fsf@web.de> <874n9amatr.fsf@web.de> <87vc1p9ggs.fsf@web.de> <837ge4hpco.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87li2k92l8.fsf@web.de> <8338oshfy5.fsf@gnu.org> <45370BAD-3E8A-40A9-835B-C269787D29E3@Web.DE> > <> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1380232686 29649 80.91.229.3 (26 Sep 2013 21:58:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:58:06 +0000 (UTC) To: Joost Kremers , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 26 23:58:08 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VPJZX-00048H-Ff for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 23:58:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60062 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPJZW-0002U8-R6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:58:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41393) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPJZB-0002Tx-Kj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:57:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPJZ1-0000gy-AQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:57:45 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:40478) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPJZ1-0000gt-3g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:57:35 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r8QLvVir031686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:57:32 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r8QLvT3U027176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:57:31 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt110.oracle.com (abhmt110.oracle.com [141.146.116.62]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r8QLvTUI021642; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:57:29 GMT In-Reply-To: <> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:93647 Archived-At: > >> Perhaps. But I was thinking of people who understand enough English to > >> get through e.g., the tutorial with some effort, who'd prefer a > >> translation in their own language and are then put off by the Google > >> Translate translation. It creates a bad first impression, which might > >> rub off on Emacs as a whole. > > > > That's not the use case I'm talking about. Such a person would not try > > an on-the-fly Google translation. Circulez, il n'y a rien a voir. >=20 > Ok, then perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you have in mind. I thought > you wanted to automatically provide a Google translation of Emacs help > texts if no human-made translation exists.=20 No. Provide a command that lets users (on demand) send the current Info node (or whatever buffer text, including, e.g., just the active region) to a web-based (or other program) translation service and recuperate the translated text in another buffer. For an Info node, it would be great if additionally we could put the resulting text in Info mode, complete with working xrefs etc. But that is something additional, which would not be free from extra work. [If we had not recently removed `Info-edit' from Info (deprecated it) then we might even have allowed users to easily replace an English node with a translated equivalent node (however translated).] > That way, someone wanting to > try out Emacs and installing it on a machine with say a German locale > would get a Google-translated tutorial if they pressed `C-h t'.=20 No, only if they explicitly asked for a translation - that was the idea. (Of course, someone might configure things to always automatically give them a translation. But even in that case I would propose that this be provided in a separate buffer.) > As an extra option, one that is not provided automatically but only at > the user's request, and clearly indicated as being a machine > translation, that's a different thing. Yes, that's what I had in mind. And text-translator.el seems to come close already to what I was thinking of. > > Consider too the possibility that you might find it better because you > > are better at German than English? >=20 > I'm not sure how that would allow me to understand the English > translation better than the German one... My thought was that you might not be as sensitive to English problems as some might be for whom English is their first language. Even if that were not so, you might be more sensitive to German that is not perfect than to English that is not perfect. But I was mistakenly thinking that German was your first language. I guess Dutch was your first language. Anyway, in The Netherlands you pretty much have multiple "first" languages. ;-) That is, you are often very good at several languages.