From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adam Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: beginner el form Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 22:18:43 -0400 Organization: Ihug Ltd Message-ID: References: <7ebr7weqbn.fsf@ada2.unipv.it> <7e1x8sedm1.fsf@ada2.unipv.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1114942487 20879 80.91.229.2 (1 May 2005 10:14:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:14:47 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 01 12:14:45 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DSBT8-0004kP-GW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 May 2005 12:14:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DSBZo-0002NK-8D for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 May 2005 06:21:28 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 45 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 203-173-201-137.nzwide.ihug.co.nz Original-X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 1114942598 3319 203.173.201.137 (1 May 2005 10:16:38 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:16:38 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: KNode/0.7.6 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:130576 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:26148 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:26148 Thi, I think I agree. As an elisp novice, I'm dropping into it from time to time, and making progress with the elisp manual and introduction. Am spending most of my other time calling cmucl as a listener with c-x l and c-x c-e. The cmucl documentation is good, so am having fun. The elisp and emacs learning curves are both steady, seems no way around that but for further quiet clicking away and reading. Or probably getting serious about a bigger but finite application. I know that I'm not getting any younger, so whether crazyness or crankiness manifests itself first . . . Meantime I'm happy with emacs and cmucl, and am starting to "get" elisp. So thanks to all here on this rather civilized newsgroup. Joe Corneli wrote: > I (independently) wrote something called scrat.el that does > essentially what Thi's suggested code does, but just a little > different. (Its useful, but a little revision is pending to make it > more useful.) Why blather about it? To show you that this is a > pretty "universal" approach. Novices are a little uncertain when starting off. The initial "scratch buffer" appears as a temporary workspace. Saving as .. only then implies some work has started. The initial scratch buffer is not the traditional Hello World, although it can be. The FSF "An Introduction to Introduction Programming in Emacs Lisp" by Robert Chassell uses C-x C-e exclusively, and no C-j. > I don't have any "better suggestions" than tinkering with your code, > but one additional suggestion is the trace mechanism, which can be a > useful supplement to edebug. I've recently found it helpful to trace > all the functions in a buffer (see trace-all.el). I guess this also > implies the standard "break your functions up into smaller functions." Between my new cmucl experience, and the modes and () error checking of emacs, this novice is making some progress. So thank you for all comments. A.