From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Issues with emacs Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> <83086e1d-d66a-4e0c-95a7-92d10a6de7e7@f8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340680226 24605 80.91.229.3 (26 Jun 2012 03:10:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 03:10:26 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 26 05:10:26 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SjMAZ-0003Yg-UD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 05:10:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38159 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjMAZ-0001Ft-MX for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:10:23 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!nw7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 40 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 116.74.129.195 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1340680087 9906 127.0.0.1 (26 Jun 2012 03:08:07 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 03:08:07 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: nw7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=116.74.129.195; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0.1,gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:193078 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85473 Archived-At: On Jun 25, 12:45=A0pm, Helmut Eller wrote: > * rusi [2012-06-25 05:51] writes: > > If the issue is technical, then encouraging development is out-of- > > bounds > > If the issue is social -- how to get today's kids interested in emacs > > -- and I start with the slogan LEARN ELISP -- I need to go to > > marketing kindergarten > > I have my doubts that "kids" will make a better Emacs. =A0IMO good > programs are usually built by experienced and skilled developers. =A0I > don't think that it's accident that RMS wrote Emacs and GCC. =A0To make a > better Emacs, we would need highly skilled (and probably well paid) > people. There are two extreme points: - anyone and everyone adds code to the difficult/critical parts resulting in a mess and breakdown - no one codes; after a while emacs dies Clearly the sweet spot is inbetween: the right number of committed, capable programers to keep developing refactoring progressing The thread Tom alluded to earlier http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel= /126892 suggests what in systems thinking is called a reinforcing-loop or vicious cycle: http://www.systems-thinking.org/theWay/sre/re.htm Too few programmers working on too many new areas Spread too thin for doing more 'less ciritcal' work Cant mentor/tutor new wannabie devs The wannabies feel unwelcome and leave depleting the already depleted population of devs Tom wrote: > Some of today's kids will be experienced and skilled developers > someday, but they will only use their skill to improve emacs if > they get to like it first as "kids". Very well put