is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[David Combs]

Want to see something funny?

(Ok, not so funny, then.)

Within *shell*, do "man <something>".

Yes, exactly that way.  No, *not* via M-x man.

At least if you're me (running 21.2.1), emacs gets
all screwed up trying to display a man-page into *shell*,
you get this ^G.

Hit <return>, you get one line of the man-page,
and another ^G.

Please, how to get out of this situation, to cancel
that man-command, short of having to kill the *shell* buffer
itself -- which, for a variety of reasons, I'd rather
not do.

Thanks so much!

David


PS: maybe running eg vi (or other such displaying-program) 
out of *shell* will also get you into the ^G morass.

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[David Combs]

In article <c6flqh$3kb$1@panix3.panix.com>,
David Combs <dkcombs@panix.com> wrote:
>Want to see something funny?
>
>(Ok, not so funny, then.)
>
>Within *shell*, do "man <something>".
>
...

Ok, sorry -- that one you can get out of via ^C^C.

But I do get into situations where I *cannot* get
out via ^C^C.

Here, I got into one a couple of days ago, couldn't
get out of it (the ^G situation), so I renamed
*shell* to something, and made a new *shell*.

Here's some cut-n-pasted output from the renamed buffer:


152 ==/dkcjunk==> 
152 ==/dkcjunk==> 
152 ==/dkcjunk==> 
152 ==/dkcjunk==> ls -d /opt/sfw/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/man /opt/sfw/netpbm/man /opt/sfw/webmin/caldera/man /opt/sfw/webmin/man /opt/sfw/webmin/mscstyle3/man /opt6/usr/demo/SOUND/man /opt6/usr/demo/link_audit/man /opt6/usr/java1.2/man /usr/demo/link_audit/man /usr/j2se/man /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/man /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/schemas/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/man

j2se/ 
152 ==/dkcjunk==> 
152 ==/dkcjunk==> ls -d /opt/sfw/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/man /opt/sfw/netpbm/man  > foo44.out
152 ==/dkcjunk==> spellgrep forecast
\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a
152 ==/dkcjunk==> 
152 ==/dkcjunk==> h
\a\a
152 ==/dkcjunk==> echo foo
\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a
\a
\a
\a
\a
152 ==/dkcjunk==> echo lll
\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a
152 ==/dkcjunk==> 


(Oh, here's the alias for the spellgrep (done in a non-broken
shell-buffer):

  276 ==/dkcjunk==> alias spellgrep
  /myexternals/opt/gnu/bin/egrep -i !* /usr/dict/words
  277 ==/dkcjunk==> 
)

Anyway, up with the ^G's, any time it wants to output
a line to the screen, you get these ^G's.

Any clues?

(I'll keep that bad buffer/window around, in case someone wants
me to try some experiment in it.  Note: I'll probably look
for posts here more often than I run email and have to
face all that spam...)

Thanks!

David

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Barry Margolin]

In article <c6flqh$3kb$1@panix3.panix.com>,
 dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:

> Want to see something funny?
> 
> (Ok, not so funny, then.)
> 
> Within *shell*, do "man <something>".
> 
> Yes, exactly that way.  No, *not* via M-x man.
> 
> At least if you're me (running 21.2.1), emacs gets
> all screwed up trying to display a man-page into *shell*,
> you get this ^G.
> 
> Hit <return>, you get one line of the man-page,
> and another ^G.

Type "q" followed by RETURN.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[David Combs]

In article <barmar-C8F79B.10045025042004@comcast.ash.giganews.com>,
Barry Margolin  <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>In article <c6flqh$3kb$1@panix3.panix.com>,
> dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:
>
>> Want to see something funny?
>> 
>> (Ok, not so funny, then.)
>> 
>> Within *shell*, do "man <something>".
>> 
>> Yes, exactly that way.  No, *not* via M-x man.
>> 
>> At least if you're me (running 21.2.1), emacs gets
>> all screwed up trying to display a man-page into *shell*,
>> you get this ^G.
>> 
>> Hit <return>, you get one line of the man-page,
>> and another ^G.
>
>Type "q" followed by RETURN.
>
>-- 
>Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
>Arlington, MA
>*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

I've tried it -- it seems to do nothing:



224 ==/dkcjunk==> dirs
/dkcjunk /opt6/myexternals/home/dkc/4msnew /big5/david3/from_netcom-dir2/sources-stuff/lynx2-8-5/src 
225 ==/dkcjunk==> pushd /home/dkc; cd .
/home/dkc /dkcjunk /opt6/myexternals/home/dkc/4msnew /big5/david3/from_netcom-dir2/sources-stuff/lynx2-8-5/src 
226 ==/home/dkc==> egrepin -c tck *.mss | egrep -v '\.mss:0$'
sundgrep.mss:1
sundgrep_orig.mss:1
227 ==/home/dkc==> popd; cd .
/dkcjunk /opt6/myexternals/home/dkc/4msnew /big5/david3/from_netcom-dir2/sources-stuff/lynx2-8-5/src 
228 ==/dkcjunk==> alias xalias 'printf "At startup, su(ck)-in one .smd "subcommand"-file:\n  (NOTE: below, "su" is ok-abbrev for suck-in ("source") cmd "subcommands t.smd",\n      meaning "read in the sub-commands located in subcommands-file t.smd")\n  At startup, "su" EITHER:  cuffs.smd   OR    tools.smd\n    (should be local indir-symlinks *thru* /home/dkc/4msnew/{cuffs,tools}.smd)"'

228 ==/dkcjunk==> xalias
\a\a\a\a\aqq
\a\a\aq
\a\aq
\a\aQ
\a\aq
\a\aq
\a\a
\aq
\a\a

See just above, my "g<return>", several of them.

Does nothing, I think.

  -----

Any other suggestions on recovering a seemingly-"destroyed"
*shell*-buffer that's gotten (apparantely irretrievably) sucked 
into the ^G^G^G,,, snakepit.

thanks,

David

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Barry Margolin]

In article <c90lqu$7in$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:

> 228 ==/dkcjunk==> alias xalias 'printf "At startup, su(ck)-in one .smd 
> "subcommand"-file:\n  (NOTE: below, "su" is ok-abbrev for suck-in ("source") 
> cmd "subcommands t.smd",\n      meaning "read in the sub-commands located in 
> subcommands-file t.smd")\n  At startup, "su" EITHER:  cuffs.smd   OR    
> tools.smd\n    (should be local indir-symlinks *thru* 
> /home/dkc/4msnew/{cuffs,tools}.smd)"'
> 
> 228 ==/dkcjunk==> xalias
> \a\a\a\a\aqq
> \a\a\aq
> \a\aq
> \a\aQ
> \a\aq
> \a\aq
> \a\a
> \aq
> \a\a
> 
> See just above, my "g<return>", several of them.
> 
> Does nothing, I think.

Where's the "man" command in that alias?  What I see there is lots of 
quoting problems in the printf command.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[David Combs]

In article <barmar-E063AD.00315626052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Barry Margolin  <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>In article <c90lqu$7in$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:
>
>> 228 ==/dkcjunk==> alias xalias 'printf "At startup, su(ck)-in one .smd 
>> "subcommand"-file:\n  (NOTE: below, "su" is ok-abbrev for suck-in ("source") 
>> cmd "subcommands t.smd",\n      meaning "read in the sub-commands located in 
>> subcommands-file t.smd")\n  At startup, "su" EITHER:  cuffs.smd   OR    
>> tools.smd\n    (should be local indir-symlinks *thru* 
>> /home/dkc/4msnew/{cuffs,tools}.smd)"'
>> 
>> 228 ==/dkcjunk==> xalias
>> \a\a\a\a\aqq
>> \a\a\aq
>> \a\aq
>> \a\aQ
>> \a\aq
>> \a\aq
>> \a\a
>> \aq
>> \a\a
>> 
>> See just above, my "g<return>", several of them.
>> 
>> Does nothing, I think.
>
>Where's the "man" command in that alias?  What I see there is lots of 
>quoting problems in the printf command.
>
>-- 
>Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
>Arlington, MA
>*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Took it down last night for lev0-dump; lost
all those "bad" shell-buffers.

So, from scratch, try this one, and see if
you can discover how to recover from it:

| cpml% printf "hello\nHere we are.  We are now HERE.\nGoodbye\n" >! foo.foo
| cpml% cat foo.foo
| hello
| Here we are.  We are now HERE.
| Goodbye
| cpml% vi foo.foo
| 
| [Using open mode]
|      1  
| "foo.foo" 3 lines, 45 characters 
|      1  
| 
|      2  .
| \a
|      3  3
| \a
| \aq
| \a\a
| \a\a\a\a      <---- Tried a series of Control-C chars here
| | \a  <---- each line comes from a simple newline.
| \a
| \a
| 


Thanks for *any* hints on escaping from this hole!

David

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Stefan Monnier]

> | cpml% vi foo.foo
> | 
> | [Using open mode]
> |      1  
> | "foo.foo" 3 lines, 45 characters 
> |      1  
> | 
> |      2  .
> | \a
> |      3  3
> | \a
> | \aq
> | \a\a
> | \a\a\a\a      <---- Tried a series of Control-C chars here
> | | \a  <---- each line comes from a simple newline.
> | \a
> | \a
> | 

> Thanks for *any* hints on escaping from this hole!

Have you tried to type `: q RET' ?


        Stefan


From: patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti)
Message-ID: <1991Jul11.031731.9260@athena.mit.edu>
Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system)
Subject: The True Path (long)
Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
Path: ai-lab!mintaka!olivea!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!patl
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 95
Xref: ai-lab alt.religion.emacs:244 alt.slack:1935

When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi
*and* Emacs are just too damn slow.  They print useless messages like,
'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'.  So I use the editor
that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.

Ed, man!  !man ed

ED(1)               UNIX Programmer's Manual                ED(1)

NAME
     ed - text editor

SYNOPSIS
     ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
     Ed is the standard text editor.
---

Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first
alphabetically, but because it's the standard.  Everyone else loves ed
because it's ED!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair.  Just look:

-rwxr-xr-x  1 root          24 Oct 29  1929 /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-t  4 root     1310720 Jan  1  1970 /usr/ucb/vi
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  5.89824e37 Oct 22  1990 /usr/bin/emacs

Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:

golem> ed

?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?

---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage.  Ed is
generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm
the novice with verbosity.

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA!  ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES!  ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
BODILY FLUIDS!!  ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR!  ED MAKES THE SUN
SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless
help screens and cursor positioning code!  I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor".  Not a "emacsitor".  Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

TEXT EDITOR.

When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi?  No.  Emacs?  Surely
you jest.  They chose the most karmic editor of all.  The standard.

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on.  If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs.  If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi.  If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION.  THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS.  DO NOT GIVE IN!!!  THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

?

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[David Combs]

In article <jwvhdu2rg4g.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>,
Stefan Monnier  <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> | cpml% vi foo.foo
>> | 
>> | [Using open mode]
>> |      1  
>> | "foo.foo" 3 lines, 45 characters 
>> |      1  
>> | 
>> |      2  .
>> | \a
>> |      3  3
>> | \a
>> | \aq
>> | \a\a
>> | \a\a\a\a      <---- Tried a series of Control-C chars here
>> | | \a  <---- each line comes from a simple newline.
>> | \a
>> | \a
>> | 
>
>> Thanks for *any* hints on escaping from this hole!
>
>Have you tried to type `: q RET' ?
>
>
>        Stefan

Yep, have done, just like I was told to earlier --
with ZERO effect.


And Kai wants me to use eshell -- but I'm used to csh/tcsh,
and *really, really* don't want to get into bash,
and am not sure just what I must do to my .cshrc
to adjust it for eshell, and the info-doc that
comes with eshell seems *really* lacking in anything
useful as far as how to actually *use* the thing
(esp for a csh-user), ...

(using vi as the example to get the ^G^G... stuff
is only showing an easy way to get into the situation --
of course, that's not what I actually do, when
I *inadvertently*  trigger it -- actually, I
have little idea of what I did to cause it --
can't even do a "C-h l" at that time, to see what
I've recently entered as keystrokes.)

Please, can the gurus here try doing vi (as
simple way to cause the problem) in *shell* --
where M-x shell gets me into my standard shell, csh.

Then, see if *you* (said gurus) can escape.


Thanks!


PS: One puzzle: what's this stuff about how wonderful
"ed" is?  (Yes, is better than ex for *scripts*, for sure) --
how does it relate to this post?  Except to suggest
that when in *shell* I should use ed rather than vi --
again, vi is only an easy way to get the ^G problem
(and I very often do use ex from *shell*).


>From: patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti)
>Message-ID: <1991Jul11.031731.9260@athena.mit.edu>
>Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system)
>Subject: The True Path (long)
>Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
>Path: ai-lab!mintaka!olivea!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!patl
>Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack
>Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>Lines: 95
>Xref: ai-lab alt.religion.emacs:244 alt.slack:1935
>
>When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi
>*and* Emacs are just too damn slow.  They print useless messages like,
>'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'.  So I use the editor
>that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.
>
>Ed, man!  !man ed
>
>ED(1)               UNIX Programmer's Manual                ED(1)
>
>NAME
>     ed - text editor
>
>SYNOPSIS
>     ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
>DESCRIPTION
>     Ed is the standard text editor.
>---
>
>Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first
>alphabetically, but because it's the standard.  Everyone else loves ed
>because it's ED!
>
>"Ed is the standard text editor."
>
...
...

>not be vi.  If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION.  THE
>SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
>FAITHLESS.  DO NOT GIVE IN!!!  THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Barry Margolin]

In article <c93vha$eav$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:

> PS: One puzzle: what's this stuff about how wonderful
> "ed" is?  (Yes, is better than ex for *scripts*, for sure) --
> how does it relate to this post?  Except to suggest
> that when in *shell* I should use ed rather than vi --
> again, vi is only an easy way to get the ^G problem
> (and I very often do use ex from *shell*).

In general, when you're in a *shell* buffer, you can't use any 
full-screen applications.  The shell buffer is not emulating a video 
terminal, it's more like a dumb hardcopy terminal.

One thing that will help alot is to set $PAGER to "cat" when you're in a 
shell buffer.  Put the following in your .cshrc:

if ( $?EMACS ) setenv PAGER cat

This should avoid most unintentional use of "more" or "less".

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Please, can the gurus here try doing vi (as
> simple way to cause the problem) in *shell* --
> where M-x shell gets me into my standard shell, csh.

Thank you for assuming I posted an answer without trying to reproduce
your problem.

> Then, see if *you* (said gurus) can escape.

I did `: q RET' and got back to a prompt.

Admittedly, I didn't get the same behavior as you did.  So maybe if you
give us more details about your system, your shell, show us the output of
`printenv' before you run `vi', and also show us how you got there,
starting from `emacs -q --no-site-file'.

> PS: One puzzle: what's this stuff about how wonderful
> "ed" is?  (Yes, is better than ex for *scripts*, for sure) --
> how does it relate to this post?  Except to suggest
> that when in *shell* I should use ed rather than vi --
> again, vi is only an easy way to get the ^G problem
> (and I very often do use ex from *shell*).

Just that your "example session" looked strikingly similar to the one in the
ed joke (which comes straight out of the etc/JOKES file in the Emacs
distribution) and that this ed joke is my favorite geek joke.


        Stefan

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Kai Grossjohann]

dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes:

> And Kai wants me to use eshell -- but I'm used to csh/tcsh, and
> *really, really* don't want to get into bash, and am not sure just
> what I must do to my .cshrc to adjust it for eshell, and the
> info-doc that comes with eshell seems *really* lacking in anything
> useful as far as how to actually *use* the thing (esp for a
> csh-user), ...

Yes, eshell definitely needs more documentation.

But simple usage should be, well, simple.  For instance, to find a
word in a file, type

    grep word file.txt

at the shell prompt, just like you would with another shell.

The result will be quite different, though ;-)  That is the beauty
about eshell...

> (using vi as the example to get the ^G^G... stuff is only showing an
> easy way to get into the situation -- of course, that's not what I
> actually do, when I *inadvertently* trigger it -- actually, I have
> little idea of what I did to cause it -- can't even do a "C-h l" at
> that time, to see what I've recently entered as keystrokes.)

Hm.  If C-c C-c (which is like Ctrl-C in a "normal" shell) doesn't
stop the program, then perhaps C-c C-z (which is like Ctrl-Z in a
"normal" shell) can interrupt it.  After C-c C-z, you can use the
usual "kill %1" thing to kill the process.

Does this help?

Kai

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[Kai Grossjohann]

dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes:

> Want to see something funny?
>
> (Ok, not so funny, then.)
>
> Within *shell*, do "man <something>".

One way to proceed is to set $PAGER to cat in Emacs shells.

(Warning: Shameless plug follows.)

Another is to use shell-integration.el which I wrote where typing "man
foo" in a *shell* buffer does like M-x man.

However, shell-integration.el doesn't really work: the commands
executed by Emacs will not be entered into the shell history and thus
cannot be recalled with "!-2" or somesuch.

(End of shameless plug.)

Another is to use M-x eshell RET instead of M-x shell RET so that "man
foo" does like M-x man RET foo RET.

Yet another way is to use M-x term RET instead of M-x shell RET.

Kai

Re: is easy to get hung in infinite ^G stream; how to stop it?

[David Combs]

Thanks, apparantely *very* belatedly, for the hints
on the ^G^G^G^G^G problem.

How I could have missed your replies for this long I don't
understand; I'm here looking around every few days...

David