From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Barry Margolin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: page-at-a-time output for M-x shell Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:05:08 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <30a09a22-cd05-44b6-9b82-8a7e6c1796d5@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <7bf1883b-3184-487c-a5a4-675f3e117342@l2g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <85269090-af0d-43fa-bd49-da265cbac558@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <3c2b0d8c-2d31-45f0-8eda-1af2320d8cf5@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <0eab476b-cd5f-444d-b2af-d82ac076e73b@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <19dfd9e3-c7ad-4680-bfb7-2d25f79fca91@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247607824 8985 80.91.229.12 (14 Jul 2009 21:43:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:43:44 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 14 23:43:37 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MQpmh-0004lw-EQ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:43:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43502 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MQpmg-0001rs-UO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:43:34 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!weretis.net!feeder2.news.weretis.net!feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 62 Original-X-Trace: news.eternal-september.org U2FsdGVkX1/PvGhlSsY8wZJ5TzSzz0+gIeKjSZcHXI2H0X8b2Q2Id+b5yiyn+Y80cgN+NivMSMyojm18Xq3tzOqM3mG4F5hTLBu1H69bHbR8yeo556sbTdSoRmIz9YZhvzdhNG5cVpc= Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@eternal-september.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:10:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1/lbdId6xdZPHh7zWcxcdLYuVwD6LwQK7E= Cancel-Lock: sha1:rWen8sLhYE1av72AyB8hfvZQbjY= User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.3b3 (Intel Mac OS X) Mail-Copies-To: nobody Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:170884 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:66077 Archived-At: In article <19dfd9e3-c7ad-4680-bfb7-2d25f79fca91@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, Francis Moreau wrote: > On 14 juil, 05:12, Barry Margolin wrote: > > In article > > <0eab476b-cd5f-444d-b2af-d82ac076e...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, > >  Francis Moreau wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 13, 11:04 am, Peter Dyballa wrote: > > > > Am 13.07.2009 um 10:03 schrieb Francis Moreau: > > > > > > > I never claim to have a splendid idea. I just found weird that this is > > > > > not offered by M-x shell, whereas it is by M-x term... > > > > > > The one offers an environment to run a shell interpreter   > > > > interactively in it, > > > > > OK, so what am I supposed to run in this shell interpreter ? > > > > > I can understand that I can't start mutt or any other appli that needs > > > all term environment in M-x shell, but the feature I'm asking is not > > > specific to term emulation, it's just a goodies to make life easier > > > when reading the _text_ output of any commands I start from this shell > > > interpreter. > > > > Why do you need a pager, when the Emacs shell buffer allows you to page > > back and forward through the output, search it, etc.? > > Ok, let me ask you one question: why do anybody use ('| less') in all > term emulation whereas they all have the PgUp/PgDw functionality ? Terminal emulators often have a scrollback limit. Also, you can search for things with "less", you can't easily search in the emulator window. Or maybe you can -- I've been using more and less since the days of real terminals, so that's where my habits got formed. > > because it's obviously not convenient. > > It's not convenient because a) you get the wanted result without any > user interventions (search, key press...) b) the command which outputs > the data is stopped as soon as the reader stops to read the produced > data. I agree with these points, too. Scrollback in some terminal emulators doesn't work well if the output is still going -- sometimes they spring you back to the end, or the position moves as the end moves, etc. Pagers give more control, but you get all the same control in Emacs. Actually, I generally try to avoid running programs that produce lots of output in my shell buffer. I'll usually run them with M-! so they go to their own buffer. -- Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***